OK guyz, here's your chance...
...to let me have it. \"It\" being what you really think. :shock:
I'm in this little group - me n two chix. Yeah, hard to believe, I know; but one of them's my ex - NO interest there, except she can play bass and sing a bit - and the other is a VERy hott, insane ex-alcoholic. Sings like an angel, though... 8) .
ANYway. On to the subject at hand:
The bass player is very novice, though puts her best into it.
The other one is supremely talented, a real natural. Amazing singer, plays acoustic pretty well, and writes great stuff. The problem is this: she's very \"anti-technology\" and \"anti...\" Well, I don't know.
What I do know is this: she doesn't dig electric git'r at all...she wants our little group to be all acoustic git'rs. So when we play, a lot of time I'm doing the same melody she is, except she's doing \"straight\" rhythm, while I \"dress it up\" a bit, just so we're not playing the exact same thing.
There'd be no point in that, except to allow me to stand next to her, ogle her, and listen to her sing, which is worth the price of admission even on a bad day.
She also is completely uninterested in the skill/art of git'r playing; she's a very 3-open-chords type. She can't even do bar chords. Sometimes when a song goes from D to Em, she just plays C instead of Em 'cuz it sounds \"close\" and she can still sing the same melody line.
When I mention that such n such a song goes from D to Em, not C, she rolls her eyes and calls me a \"music nerd\"...not to slam me, but to make that point that such intricacies are not of interest to her. She'd rather just sing, and as long as the chords make the song sound like a song, she's fine.
It's even come up that there are songs we do that she should just sing, and leave the instruments to me and the bass player. She's also a hott front-babe.
So...the question is: should I care? Just play the way they like it, even if it's not quite on the money?
I'm in this little group - me n two chix. Yeah, hard to believe, I know; but one of them's my ex - NO interest there, except she can play bass and sing a bit - and the other is a VERy hott, insane ex-alcoholic. Sings like an angel, though... 8) .
ANYway. On to the subject at hand:
The bass player is very novice, though puts her best into it.
The other one is supremely talented, a real natural. Amazing singer, plays acoustic pretty well, and writes great stuff. The problem is this: she's very \"anti-technology\" and \"anti...\" Well, I don't know.
What I do know is this: she doesn't dig electric git'r at all...she wants our little group to be all acoustic git'rs. So when we play, a lot of time I'm doing the same melody she is, except she's doing \"straight\" rhythm, while I \"dress it up\" a bit, just so we're not playing the exact same thing.
There'd be no point in that, except to allow me to stand next to her, ogle her, and listen to her sing, which is worth the price of admission even on a bad day.
She also is completely uninterested in the skill/art of git'r playing; she's a very 3-open-chords type. She can't even do bar chords. Sometimes when a song goes from D to Em, she just plays C instead of Em 'cuz it sounds \"close\" and she can still sing the same melody line.
When I mention that such n such a song goes from D to Em, not C, she rolls her eyes and calls me a \"music nerd\"...not to slam me, but to make that point that such intricacies are not of interest to her. She'd rather just sing, and as long as the chords make the song sound like a song, she's fine.
It's even come up that there are songs we do that she should just sing, and leave the instruments to me and the bass player. She's also a hott front-babe.
So...the question is: should I care? Just play the way they like it, even if it's not quite on the money?
Comments
On the covers we play, we constantly transpose the key of the song to fit our lead singer's range. And yes, sometimes we even substitute chords in a song from the original if it works better for us. Although that is rare, sometimes it just works better for both the band and the singer. I don't think anybody in the audience even knows. If it sounds good, nobody cares.
Everyone has their particular tastes in music and what they want to sing and how they want to play it. Your choice of acoustics will work great for lots of songs but not for others. You limit yourselves. That is a constant problem we have in my current band with an acoustic rhythm, a semi-hollow body Epi, and my bass. We can cover lots of songs, but some songs cry out for two electric solid body guitars. I would like to play some heavy metal songs with our band, but the guys, at this point, will not use guitars required to pull off the sound. Black Sabbath's \"Paranoid\" doesn't sell on an acoustic.
Don't forget the whole point you are in that group. Wasn't your goal to be standing next to some hott babe? Sounds like you are just where you were working so hard to get. I voted to get them to try to play the correct chords, but it is with the idea that first you try it her way and I would think that either it would work, or not, and then you would have made your point about using the 'correct' chord. Best wishes.
Where playing the song is concerned: that all depends on what your goals are for the band. If your desired outcome is to write and play songs that are electric and contain more than 2 1/2 chords and more than 1 progression, then get the heck out - you're clearly with the wrong group. On the other hand, if you just want to have a good time and check out the hot girl who can't play bar chords, then I don't see a problem. Just do what YOU want to do - that's always been my biggest issues.
I'm in a band currently (see the videos) post where I'm playing with my old bassist from 44lbs (Juice). He wanted to start a cover band (in 44lbs he had relatively little say as far as music is concerned, except the stuff he wrote). He approached our drummer from 44lbs (Josh), after the breakup, and offered him to play with us (I wasn't in the picture at the time). Josh does not want to play in a cover band, so he declined; moreover, Josh believes that Juice and I are sissies because we're playing (relatively) simple cover songs and not writing original stuff.
Now, if you listen to 44lbs stuff, especially the MIDI concepts of songs that we never got around to writing, you'll notice some crazy things. It's a very Dream Theater-like writing vibe, though stylistically different: anything goes, do whatever you want, make whatever you come up with work together, and make sure you use every kitchen sink you can get your hands on. So, we had songs that end up being 10 minutes long, with practically unplayable instrumental sections, in odd time signatures, with working titles along the lines of \"bull****-*ss s**t\". There are times when I like to push my limits in this way; there are other times when I just want to play a simple song that I like (or perhaps someone else in the band likes) that I've heard on the radio or another band's album a thousand times. So even with exact same bandmates, the goals and resulting atmosphere can be quite different.
Your music, your life - your decision. Don't let your bandmates drive your own purpose and direction.
Our present worship leader used to skip the more difficult chords and just grab the root while myself or the piano player would play the whole chord. That too may be an option.
peace
Great advice I'll take to heart in my own situation. I am putting up with some issues in my current band only because I am still going in the direction I want to go. My goal was to better myself as a musician and learn differnet styles of music (country, folk) than I was comfortable playing (Rock). If the issues were greater than my purpose and goals, I'd have to leave.
Along those lines, to my friend Shredd, I'll say that although I have been through some tough times with a current bandmate, other musicians have taken notice of my abilities and I have been approached with offers from other musicians. If playing in this group moves you along your purpose and direction, then let it play out. If not, start looking for another group more in line with your goals. Also, some bands evolve over time, others don't. My current band is moving more in the direction I would like to go and that keeps me going. We are not the same band we started out a year ago. Give your current group some time to work out your band's direction. Despite the drama, it's still more fun to be in a band than not. And you actually got a hott chick to look at in your group! I hope you guys work it out. Best wishes.
Anyhow, just to be a music nerd, in the key of C, where C, F, and G are the I, IV, and V chords, respectively, the common minor substitutes are vi, ii, and iii chords, respectively. Thus, Am substitutes for C, Dm substitutes for F, and Em substitutes for G.
If she's not playing the right chords, she doesn't play acoustic all that well. My suggestion is that you play rhythm, let her sing and do nothing, or maybe bang a tambourine, and keep your ex on bass.
On a related note, a local group here that are memebers of my old church just got voted best cover band in a local paper readers' poll. They are 2 older couples. The guys both play acoustic and sing primarily backing vocals, and the ladies are singers and play light percussion, i.e., bang a tambourine. If it works, and people like it, keep it up.
One final note:
Don't be so sure. I thought the same thing about Layla, but that sure works. Slow it up a little. Try it with a 12 string.
You must have never heard the Cardigan's version of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
I have heard Clapton play Layla on acousitic guitar and it was great. But then, that was Clapton. I imagine I'd like anything he played on either electric or acoustic. Both versions were great, both were different.
I was just agreeing with Shredd in the respect that limiting yourself to acoustic guitars will most likely limit the choice of songs or type of music they will be able to play. Best wishes.
No thanks. I only have one lady in my life and that is more than enough problems for me! Take care.
OK, good points and opinions from y'all...'speshly 'blooz, who pointed out that this area of music isn't exactly my alley; I'm just having fun being able to play with others, and being able to simultaneously listen to this bird sing, while ogling her beauty.
But, like iliace sez, I'm not sure that's enough. It's a toss-up: on the one hand, I get to play with others, maybe even in front of people, and could conceivably get hooked up with other musicians. On the other hand, I'm playing very country-music, female-centric songs, which are fine, but not exactly my focus or favorite. And we're not even playing them \"right\", but rather in a key (always D or G :roll: ) that suits the singer, and in a very 3-chord manner (boring and rarely accurate).
Now, I realize that often people transpose songs to a key that works for them, or even twiddles the arrangement/s to suit their, or other bandmates', abilities, but frankly, the way they play is a bit boring/monotonous, and often betrays the actual sound of the song.
The thing is, these chix aren't exactly into \"musicianship\". The bassist is very novice, and while she wants to be better and practices hard, is not exactly in her element. The other one - the uber-hottie with the great skills - is really not into \"musicianship\" as much as she just likes to sing and be the center of attention.
So that leaves me...I want to play - with, and in front of, people - and meet chix. But I also want to pursue my interests in music and progress in those areas, not in an area I'm indifferent to (country-western...).
Hence, I ask for opinions and general consensus. Keep 'em coming, I'm benefitting from your perspectives.
'Course, it'd be easier to straighten out if Shania and Geffen would return my phone calls...
That or tell the hottie that you and the bassist are out of your comfort spaces and that she needs to join the club and experiment with new things too.
Hope that helps
PEACE 8)
Here's the lay of the land: the uber-hottie really IS the center of this situation. My ex and her are friends, and really enjoy hanging out and playing together, no matter what they sound like. I'm not sure the bassist even wants to improve, at least not more than she wants to have fun.
So it's really me on one side, them on the other. I've been \"putting up\" with it so far 'cuz it's fun to play with people (a rare situation, in my teeny little town) and she really is a GREAT singer.
But I really think I have little chance of influencing how or what they play, even if I'm part of it. Sort of a \"my way or the highway\" deal. So, while it's fun to play, and hang out with a coupla hott chix...frankly, I don't see a lot of change in the musical direction of this situation. Maybe over time... :roll: ...if I stick it out that long...
A thing with technology? Far out... the electric guitar is older than the microwave... i bet she uses one of them without complaining about it
sound system and a five dollar microphone, It's gonna sound like a five dollar microphone. Either you do it her way or it's the highway otherwise you'll never be together musically. If she is consistant, it could work out. And as strange as it may be, sometimes that brings about something new because they know no boundaries. It's just the getting there that's hell. Been there three times, failed twice. Write your own songs and no one will be the wiser. If you have the patience and think it might get you somewhere, Stick it out for awhile, Otherwise bail. If she's a really good singer, you might want to get into where she's comming from even though musically she might not be up to snuff. You could be surprised at what you might learn out of the box, so to speak. God knows how many famous artists there have been that can only play three chords, sing within a very limited range and know nothing about music theory or structure. I guess that's why we call it art.
Shredd, wasn't this gig with the girls originally a one time gig? If that is the case, I'd just ride it out through the gig and go your seperate ways afterwards if you can't see yourself in a group with them. No need to make yourself miserable. Also, doesn't sound like the girls really want to put much effort into a band. So I have a hard time hearing you get so worked up about it. Keep looking for other musicians that are going in your direction and you will be much happier - even if they don't have a hott babe.
For what it's worth, I got my position in my current band because the guys saw me out there working with another band. You never know who will be watching you play at that gig(s) with the girls. Just being out there putting in an effort means something to other musicians that may be watching your gig. Someone may find you and want to talk to you about your musical direction. It happens. Best wishes.
I would stay and just deal with the downside, and enjoy the benefits.
Are you having FUN!!!!
If not walk away...
Words to live by..
\"If it aint fun, don't do it..\"..
depends on your integrity level i suppose...both musically and emotionally.Either way you go,you sell yourself short somewhere
Personally,....I would be honest with her/them and say \"Hey,i have spent years honing my craft and I am use to a degree of proffessionalism.Sure,call me a nerd,but i don't want my existence defined by the search for mediocrity ...........no matter WHAT i do.So if you want someone to back your vocals without argument.....try a karaoke machine\"
the reason she gives you so much guff is most likely an inferiority complex due to the fact you have the knowledge and she doesn't.Too bad because she could REALLY benefit from the experience.
It may sound dismal but i believe your better off playing with yourself....in your studio,until you can find people to play with that respect your hard earned talents in music
best of luck to ya \"Shredd\"
I completely disagree. Playing out is always better than sitting in your room. Maybe somebody will be at a show, and wants to start another band. He comes to your show, and musicians know who the worst and best players are. If you're playing with bad players, the overall sound sucks, but you're the big fish in a small pond. Exposure is key in your position.
Think about how many people will see you on stage, and how many people will see you in your room.
AND MY POINT IS.........who in their right mind is gonna approach you to play in a band if your group performance just included wrong chords and a lack of proffessionalism...they'll just walk away and tell their friends about how bad the group they saw the night before was.
Like i said....this is about integrity-how bad do you want to play VS how little do you want to be embarrased.....I have been there and seen the damage and simply said \"I wouldn't\" ................i believe the REAL answer ,in this case,can only come from \"Shredd\"
On ther other hand if this coffee house trio were to continue afterwards, shredd has some soul searching to do. Imho; aside from song writing, get her to put the guitar down for performances. I can understand why it would be hard to walk away from a great set of pipes. And if she is that lovely to stand next to, how much more would it be for the audience to look at! ie repeat pratrons.
Funny thing is - from my point of view, you're ALL right. This situation can be looked at from several perspectives, and the right answer depends on what angle you're looking from.
This little project really is just about the wedding gig. That's the only thing we've got lined up, although if it goes great, we might line up something else. Frankly, besides the one that can sing so damn well (and writes songs well too), there's not much musicianship between the two of them. Between that, and the fact that they're so into this sad ol' country music thing, I can't see it developing into much of an ongoing concern. And it seems like that's what most people like to listen to around here. :roll:
On the other hand, there's some notable upsides: for one, I get to actually PLAY with people, which, as has been noted, is better than playing with yourself. :shock: . It's truly a joy to hear this girl sing, she's really terrific - just not much of a git'r player, nor is the bassist. BUT...I might get the chance to be \"spotted\" by other musicians I might be more interested in playing with, and there sure isn't anything wrong with having a drop-dead beauty on stage with you - it gets EVERYbody noticed. 8)
As far as my \"personal\" interests go...well, it won't surprise any of you guys that I'd LOOOOVE to get jiggy with this sweetie. I'm not sure I see it happening - she's a \"bit\" younger than I am, and getting attention from men isn't exactly her problem in life. So unless she decides that she's ready for a different kind of guy than she usually goes out with, I'm not really in the running :? . But - as was noted before - hanging around with a hottie can't hurt your chances of meeting other hott ones. So I'll take my chances.
So...as y'all can see - there's a lot of pros n cons, for either position. Note that the poll is running basically even!
My gut feeling is to stick it out and play the garbage they wanna play, if for no other reason than to play, \"get out there\" and maybe hook up with other players, and perhaps hook up with either the singing sweetie or one of her hott friends. Or at least a woman who likes me. If there IS such a woman..
So - continue to put forth your thoughts, it's been very educational and gives me a lot to think about. At least until I can get Mutt and Shania to stop over... 8)
For as long as I have been reading this forum, Shredd has been looking to get with other musicians to play out live. If this gig is still a one time thing, I think he should just smile, surpress, and get through the show. Backing out of a one-time wedding gig doesn't seem like the thing to do.
One night I was playing with some guys (not my current band), and the drummer we had backed out the day before the gig. The replacement drummer that our lead singer got was untested. Turns out she was a complete novice and had no idea how to play with a live band. She started and stopped a couple of times during one song and our lead singer walked off the stage acting like a big baby. He left me and the lead guitarist hanging out there on stage with the novice drummer HE brought to the show. Anyway, other musicians there knew what the problem was (the drummer), they lost respect for our lead singer (walking off the stage), and had a lot more respect for me and the lead guitarist because at least we acted professional enough to stick it out through the bitter end. And it was bitter. Sometimes, even a very bad night can be good for you personally. Other musicians watch how you handle the stress and when a band is having a terrible night, the stress can be high.
So, I encourage Shredd to finish this one time wedding gig he signed up for despite his personal feelings about the girls or the music. It will get him some exposure and maybe some other opportunities with other musicians somewhere else down the line. If he hasn't worked out the musical problems with the girls by the end of that wedding gig, just tell them you can't see your role in that group and leave under better terms. If he absolutely can't do it, bail out early and give the girls time to find someone else. However, I do hope he does see it through the one gig.
Whatever he decides, I wish Shredd good luck. Take care.
These babes remind me of the folks here where I live. We party, and play music around campfires, Lake Michigan beaches, and Barn Dances. We have some great musicians who prefer to just have fun.
We have locals here who will play at each others weddings, and even just go out to their truck and grab their guitar and come back into the Bar and light the place on fire...just for the hell of it.
I converted my old barn into a party Barn, a couple years ago. I put in this white oak dance floor, and throw several Barn dances a year...and hope to do more eventually. In these photos, I hired our local celebrity Country DJ. She is a great Line Dance instructor too...so we had a good time celebrating my Ministers Birthday last year.
(that's him with the evil eyes on the left)
I jokingly say so 'cuz his WY house is right across the river from me, and if WY weren't such a \"red\" state, he'd be burned in effigy in the town square. :evil:
Anyway...TOTally dig your barn setup. Superkewl, and fun for all.
So,,,that's what this thing comes down to...have some fun playin' with the girls, do the wedding thing, and see what happens.
Funny thing is, this chick doesn't need to be reminded of her \"potential\"...she moved to Nashville at 20, made records, did pretty well. It's when she came back to WY and picked up git'r that her act went south - she's a pretty so-so player - but the fact is, she doesn't care. She just does it for fun. If she really cared about \"the music\", she'd let me, or one of the more talented local players, play the git'r for her, so she could sing great and look pretty.
So I'm just gonna play along - at least til the wedding gig - and see. If it sux, then I'll just tell her I've got other things to do, like vacuum my dog and rotate my potted plants. :twisted: