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President Bush

Hate him or love him? I know that I am Australian, but he is currently meddling with world affairs so it is an international poll.
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  • thehootman only gives me two options; one is hate, one is love. I try not to hate anyone so what does that leave.

    Let's just say I am anxious for the next election. But that doesn't mean I am going way left, just looking for a little less conservative approach.

    I could go on and on but that would just stir up the crap.
  • New option added! hootman, I hope you don't mind...
  • I can say that I strive as well to hate no one!! After all the Love & Grace My Lord & God showed me :shock: I mean common how could I possibly not extend love & grace even when underserved :wink: I mean may that be totally diffecult for me someday? possibly but I would hope thru God I would do the right thing. I think other than this whole terrorisim deal he has done a good job!! I mean he is certainly a man of his word!! I recieved the check :wink: & a man of conviction who sees his decisions thru so hey like or not that's the kind of stuff that makes a good leader :D
  • neither- Job performance is always debatable on who you ask.. I don't hate anybody.. was raised not to! Prior to this war, most peacetime Pres were debating over the popularity of Roe V Wade, Anti this or that.. and the economy.. popularity then was an easier thing to deal with. But they still had to represent in one form that disagreed with a certain amount of citizens and other leaders of nations.

    Foreign affairs are always an issue. US was NOT popular in as many wars.. even pre WWII there were issues facing leaders of nations. Churchill and FDR were not real popular in as many ways.. US did not like being in a war. go back to the newspapers of history even when it wasn't about DAILY CNN reports. Many US citizens were not happy about the idea of war and how it was being fought.. Look at the Pac Islands.. we had a very devout enemy well dug in, and turned those Isles into slaughter houses. Thousands died each day. The Generals and the Pres were bashed daily for such under-estimations.. FDR stood strong in many decisions and blunders regarding.. did the opposition party exploit that??? you bet ya!!

    What's next?? that all depends on how Popular the decision is.. sad to say, the polls mean more than life. If we relax our thinking, 9-11 will be a smidgen of what is really being though of... To be a leader in today's world cannot be a popularity contest. If it is... god forbid what we are in for!

    I've spoken with many serving in this war and they know first and foremost what the ideologists have in store for us.. the best way to get a sleeping giant is to get him while asleep.. What good is all the training and tactics if you cannot use it.. that is what many of the GI's have said.

    All major wars started with such hatred of an enemy.. that's what usually provokes it, and of course power.. If we have to fight like VNam then we should maybe get out.. and then who knows... maybe it'll take 5 more years for the next major attack.. certainly the civilians in accordance with the US, and as many current Iraq soldiers will pay the price for their defiance.. V N soldiers slaughtered many men women and children following our departure of an unpopular war.. by the hundreds of thousands.. not just a few... we left them no HELP.. that, signed their death warrant.. So, imagine being a sitting Pres.. popular or not.. I wouldn't want that on my shoulders.
  • Can't hate him or love him.

    Speaking of meddling. If Iran and Syria would stop sending battle equipment and letting scores of insurgents flood through their borders into Iraq to murder innocent civilians and Troops, we could get out of there much sooner. Its no secret that Iran is doing whatever it can to support an all-out civil war.
  • Wellllll. I sure don't love him. But the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.
    I also think hating is a bate thing. I hate guys like Hitler. But that's about it.
    Basically, I just think Bush is a VERY poor president, ruling through his own vision rather than America's. And Cheney is a frickin' crook.
  • Food for thought..

    More people are killed daily in US cities and other countries for domestic and really really dumb situations than the widespread military action at present day. The cause over there has more nobility than does a robbery, pre-meditated murder, ticked off boyfriend, and many others convicted and prosecuted daily..

    How many are senselessly killed for drug related things? Sure there is much to blame.. but in domestic situations, how many are outraged by that? It's on every night in the local news.. here and anywhere else. We just ignore it.. that's not our fight either. We have battled it for some time though.. education, trying to change the minds of people.. etc. has it worked?

    My wife sees more in the ER from domestic, drug and homicide instances than she ever saw in Desert Storm.. for what reason?... drunk? Stupid? pick one.. somebody always has a reason. My wife had to care for a guy who OD'd.. shot his entire family (wife and 5 kids) in the head, and then himself in the stomach. As they brought the bodies in.. she felt the dude had NO reason to live.. but it's not her decision.. still tough to digest. It never made the nightly news.. it was too disturbing.

    Fact is, we have politicized what should have been a swift end to conflict.. we changed rules of engagement that prohibits things the enemy takes advantage of... change the rules or the conflict will not be resolved.

    Any other peacetime Pres would love a stock market in record breaking numbers, low unemployment and education, Soc Sec platforms being the deciding point in a poll.. fact is, at wartime.. those are always overlooked.
  • Ok, i agree that perhaps hate was too strong, dislike then. But the global terrorism has jumped radically since Mr Bush was elected. :roll:
  • Can't hate him or love him.

    Speaking of meddling. If Iran and Syria would stop sending battle equipment and letting scores of insurgents flood through their borders into Iraq to murder innocent civilians and Troops, we could get out of there much sooner. Its no secret that Iran is doing whatever it can to support an all-out civil war.

    \"Insurgents\" - an all time favorite media word. Look, people may dislike this when i say it, but its true. When Mr Hussein had power, Iraq was stable. Ok, he killed many people, but it was stable. Now, with a pseudo democratic government, there are riots and car bombs and the like.
    Perhaps terror is the only way Iraq can be ruled.
  • It has taken decades and laundering money campaigns to buy war tools necessary. There are too many books and other things anyone can read about cels, activists. DVD's and propaganda tools are being dispensed in Europe, USA, and abroad. If we turn a blind eye to this, we can assure even worse trouble.

    The leaders of nations know how serious things are becoming. The quest is not only Iraq.. it's anywhere. Yes, it was all before Iraq was any part of the equation. BTW, the no's are not accurate but Saddam butchered nearly half a million people. Our own Civil War in the US killed nearly 1/3 the population by rough estimates.

    It's all about control and conquest. It will not end in Iraq. One GI serving I talked to said \"Hatred is being taught in ways much worse than someone upset with a neighbor.\" I trust they know more than I do. It has changed some of my thoughts though hearing it from them.
  • Hate him or love him? I know that I am Australian, but he is currently meddling with world affairs so it is an international poll.

    Um, we were attacked. I call that provocation. Granted invading Iraq was a mistake (because they didn't have the weapons), but I don't know one person that was against going into Afghanistan and dismantling that religious fanatical regime.

    The was in Iraq is showing us who the main players are. It is also sending a message to the clowns that wish to attack us. The message is attack us soil, and we take an entire country.

    The exit strategy should be through Iran. Then maybe North Korea.
  • The war is a touchy subject. That exit strategy sounds more like perpetual warfare to me, but it might be seen as necessary eventually - who knows. But, the way things are going now - with the anti-US sentiments becoming increasingly popular and unconventional warfare (cybercrime and the like) increasingly dangerous - being on the inside it's easy to begin liking the idea of pre-emptive warfare.

    I'm upset with Bush because of his domestic policies, particularly economics and the no-child-left-behind stuff. He's done almost nothing to help develop US productive capacity (making it difficult to go to war, too) and a lot to hurt it. I see all too many children left behind, all the time.
  • I dunno.. I just know I would like to hear more of these BETTER solutions that so many dems and reps have.. nobody has voiced anything besides.. \"well, He's wrong\"... truth is, none of them have any ideas.

    Domestic issues have less to do with the dislike. I can only imagine what any other member may have done after 9-11, Hurricanes, Flooded Eastern Seaboard, tornadoes, Border Insecurity, Gas Crisis, and the war.. that's Mr Bush's Legacy.. one Kerry or anyone else would not want. It's easy to call someone wrong and have no resolution since the new guy has less accountability.

    The new Congress will certainly blame the Pres for anything that does not work. It's easy to have the \"we inherited this\" as an out. Not one of them offered any solution during the campaign. So, I personally don't expect much different.
  • \iliace\ wrote:
    I'm upset with Bush because of his domestic policies, particularly economics and the no-child-left-behind stuff. He's done almost nothing to help develop US productive capacity (making it difficult to go to war, too) and a lot to hurt it. I see all too many children left behind, all the time.

    That I can agree with. But, what made people think that he could run the country successfully? He was in charge of 3 companies that went bankrupt. He has been a failure in business, so by all means lets let him run our country (into the ground).

    I work in the computer field and am amazed at the level of stupidity in this administration. I know many programmers that are out of work due to outsourcing, and this clown extended the H1-B visa program.

    For those of you not familiar with the H1-B visa, it's meant to fill a ( mostly programming) shortage with foreign workers. There is no shortage. Our citizens are being replaced on their own soil with foreign workers.
  • I can only imagine what any other member may have done after 9-11...

    I would hope that another Prez would have been smart enough to not attack the only member of the \"Axis of Evil\" that didn't have nukes, nor intended to.
  • Can't hate him or love him.

    \"Insurgents\" - an all time favorite media word. Look, people may dislike this when i say it, but its true. When Mr Hussein had power, Iraq was stable. Ok, he killed many people, but it was stable. Now, with a pseudo democratic government, there are riots and car bombs and the like.
    Perhaps terror is the only way Iraq can be ruled.

    Its interesting how people outside the US seem to be the only ones to see it this way. I totally agree with thehootman here! These people are uncivilized so there is only one way to control them. The war started in Afganistan where Al qaeda was set up. The US quickly wiped them out and decided Iraq to be the next threat. Was this about democracy or oil? I choose the later.

    This is a great poll and the replies are a statement of what makes the US such a great country. Stick up for you man, even if you don't agree with him!
  • Can't hate him or love him.

    Speaking of meddling. If Iran and Syria would stop sending battle equipment and letting scores of insurgents flood through their borders into Iraq to murder innocent civilians and Troops, we could get out of there much sooner. Its no secret that Iran is doing whatever it can to support an all-out civil war.

    \"Insurgents\" - an all time favorite media word. Look, people may dislike this when i say it, but its true. When Mr Hussein had power, Iraq was stable. Ok, he killed many people, but it was stable. Now, with a pseudo democratic government, there are riots and car bombs and the like.
    Perhaps terror is the only way Iraq can be ruled.

    Ok, maybe I should have used the word \"terrorists\".
    Another media favorite, but very accurate.
  • If you take a look around the world, you'll see many fake democracies that are in tatters. Democracy does not work everywhere with everyone. Take China - communism works a treat there.
    What went wrong was that the US thought Iraq would work on a full democracy, and doing so irritated a beehive full of suicidal bees...that plant car bombs :? :wink:
  • If you take a look around the world, you'll see many fake democracies that are in tatters. Democracy does not work everywhere with everyone. Take China - communism works a treat there.
    What went wrong was that the US thought Iraq would work on a full democracy, and doing so irritated a beehive full of suicidal bees...that plant car bombs :? :wink:

    That was pure arrogance on Bush's part. History has shown that these people NEED a totalitarian way of life.
  • well, concerning how terrorism works.. It's not that the other AXIS' having nuc's is or isn't a deterrent. If China, Korea or anyone else launches, we'll know where it came from and they know they can kiss their country Bye Bye.

    Terrorists though are more to infiltrate US and detonate here. That's what's concerning. What's our reaction and retaliatory time?? These are the things found on laptops and other written papers that we found during these raids. Alarming, but what do you do? Sit and wait? Britain has broken up a few attempts already being on the offensive. If they sat back on their laurels those plots would have succeeded with enormous consequences.

    Our own History has shown democracy was not well received or even understood for the better part of 50 yrs after the declaration. First we had to figure out how it works and embargoes and other things led to many that would have rather had British rule again.. Yes, those lessons should have been better understood by our leadership. Japan took many many years post WWII to create their own democracy. Difference being, there was less of a religiously divided group as there are in Iraq. It's too bad NOBODY including the UN and or other countries had seen this coming.
  • Fact is that we were attacked before the war in Iraq. These plots to attack us have been going on for years and they will continue to be plotted against the US. I would more than expect my government to seek out these radicals and destroy them before they destroy us, or even worse, the entire world! So all the righteous critics should understand that we are all at risk here.
  • Fact is that we were attacked before the war in Iraq. These plots to attack us have been going on for years and they will continue to be plotted against the US. I would more than expect my government to seek out these radicals and destroy them before they destroy us, or even worse, the entire world! So all the righteous critics should understand that we are all at risk here.

    Well see that is part of the deal for sure. these extremist groups will not be satisfied till the infidele is destroyed the Earth must be cleansed of all non believers not just America. That's the way these extremist think, & they also believe that once they die they go to some orgy or something in heaven with Allah? I think to if you have knowledge of certain things and & all likelyhood there a major attacks likely to come to the US to sit back & do nothing is not smart!! The more you keep the enemy comfortable able to skeem plot build up deffense & weapons to carry out a planned attack on us is not good. & I say Enemy because these folk deamed us that!!! Not the other way around!! We Are the Great Satan that must be destroyed totally wiped off the face of the Earth :shock: If we sit back stay unengaged in this & let them build up & plan & attack we may just be headed towards that being wiped off the face of the Earth. Just my 2 cents :D
  • I don't see why so many are so surprised in these things. This has been in the forefront since before WWII and the alliance of facist Islamic regimes with Hitler. I can only imagine if Hitler's reich had survived IF he would have fulfilled his promise to the Bathists.. my guess... Nope! But then things would have been much worse. Fact is, this battle against the West has been and will be ongoing. It's a difference of beliefs over a difference of opinion. Jihad had nearly defeated Britain in pre WWII Iraq with the same kind of violence.

    What's amazing is the media knows these details and the History yet never seems to use it as a reminder.
  • Hitler was put into power by British banking interests. Britain has been waging war on US since the revolution, and I don't understand why our alliances have been so scewed in this century.

    Begin with Orders in Council to blockade US shores; War of 1812, clearly... Civil War (the south being primarily bankrolled by Britain; majority of their weapons manufactured in Britain); stretch a little further to include Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations (encouraging bulk-dumping of foreign goods to discourage internal production and undermining our economy). This does not even go into the 20th century, but at that point in time you can cite Bertrand Russell's influential writings of counter-American beliefs, and the spawn of philosophers who followed. The list of British activity in the Middle East and other parts of East Asia is equally long.

    So who is our true enemy - the primitive extremists, or the pretend friends we have in Britain?
  • I'm not in the mood to debate Bush at this time. But I will make this admonishment: After observing another poster accusing Cheney of being a \"frickin crook\", be sure when you level accusations against someone, make sure you have your facts in order. To many times, people make accusations based on their emotions rather than the facts. When someone challenges the accusation on a factual level, the one making the accusatiosn won't be able to support themself.
  • I'm not in the mood to debate Bush at this time. But I will make this admonishment: After observing another poster accusing Cheney of being a \"frickin crook\", be sure when you level accusations against someone, make sure you have your facts in order. To many times, people make accusations based on their emotions rather than the facts. When someone challenges the accusation on a factual level, the one making the accusatiosn won't be able to support themself.

    Actually, one ting we can still do here in the US is call our politicians \"frickin' crooks\" without having the ammunition to back it up. As for Cheney, he does have millions of dollars invested in stocks and in mutual funds which can and do benefit from his actions. People have beeen called \"frickin' crooks\" for a lot less.
  • But on the same token, people with a lot of money are likely to be perceived as crooks, simply because there is movement in markets where money is invested. In case of politicians, such movement is influenced by their own actions - but they're still allowed to have money. Bush's family has benefitted from their actions for many decades now, but any person with a lot at stake might benefit from improving the economic and political condition.

    Have they benefitted from things majority of people do not benefit from? as a result of their actions? repeatedly? Have their actions actually improved economic conditions? Or have their actions been to the detriment of a majority while benefitting a minority that includes them?

    Those are the questions to be answered, and points to be proved and disproven, before any justification can occur.
  • Take a moment to think about a few fundamental facts. When was the last time in history that a democratic nation attacked another democratic nation for imperial reasons. I don't recall learning of that ever happening. Like it or not, Iraq is now a democratic nation. It's weak, and there is resistance, but it is a democracy, and as long as we don't run away like a particular political party in our country would have it, it will grow stronger, and eventually quite possibly become a role model for other oppressed nations in the Middle East. You may chose to view this from the pessimistic side and say it's all about the oil - if so, you missed the point. Democratic nations DONT wage war with other democratic nations for imperialistic reasons. I believe GW Bush will go down in history as one of the greatest promoters of freedom. He's ultimately responsible for a democratic nation existing where most believed was impossible. Like it or not, that's a slightly larger accomplishment than anything I've done recently :wink:
  • The entire reason why the extremists hate \"the infidel\" esp. USA (please not America - that is two continents) is because of the \"world sheriff\" behaviour of USA. Constant attempts at control of other nations etc. Also includes Britain, Australia all other \"coalition\" forces. If our countries kept our hands out of other countries, the extremists would have less provocation to do what they do.

    Also, due to the \"steal from the poor to feed the rich\" reality of USA (in relation to international economics )and many other western nations gives provocation to extremists. That is why the twin towers were targeted - they represent the oppression of global economics.
  • Sounds like You are trying to justify the attacks on sept 11th.
    Maybe I am wrong, but sure sounds that way
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