That is why the twin towers were targeted - they represent the oppression of global economics.
The attack on the Towers was an attack on non-combatants, not a military target like Pearl Harbor. These radicals are using our political correctness against us. In the 40s, people used the term \"We were Japped\".
Now people are saying, it's just a few of bad apples, not all of them. Well, a few bad apples attacked Pearl Harbor, and had us reeling for a while.
The Towers were attacked because some idiot wanted global recognition. Don't try to justify it. It just doesn't work. Innocent people from all walks of life were targeted, and killed in cold blood.
I think the point thehootman was trying to make is, would 911 have happened if the US just leave other countries alone and let them be?
I don't feel he was trying to justfy it?
The entire reason why the extremists hate \"the infidel\" esp. USA (please not America - that is two continents) is because of the \"world sheriff\" behaviour of USA. Constant attempts at control of other nations etc. Also includes Britain, Australia all other \"coalition\" forces. If our countries kept our hands out of other countries, the extremists would have less provocation to do what they do.
Also, due to the \"steal from the poor to feed the rich\" reality of USA (in relation to international economics )and many other western nations gives provocation to extremists. That is why the twin towers were targeted - they represent the oppression of global economics.
Thin twin towers were targeted because of efficiency of devistation how many people could be targeted at one time. As well as status symbols The largest buildings in the Largest city in US I mean they were going for the biggest. As far as any other reason why they attcked us or hate us the USA that's your opinion man. BUT Mine is this period we stand for freedom Religeous etc.. this nation USA is not what it once was for sure BUT it is still very much concidered a Christian Nation Look at the History Look at the Monuments even of the founders that were not Christian's they still new more Bible than the average Christian these days they believed & used prayer in there meetings & recognized God in Government frequently. These extremist HATE Christian's We are the Enemy in there eyes were false Prophets & teach lies & should be wiped out. That's why the attacks came & will continue to come if not held in check & fought against before they come again to some other target on US soil.
I'm still in disbelief that our defense systems would allow that. Either someone wasn't on the ball, or someone intentionally let them down. After that baseball player crashed into a building not so long ago, there was an interview with one of the general types who is in charge of responding to those kinds of things. He indicated some really fast readiness times for interceptor planes to be up and in the air in case of an attack. This did not happen after the first plane hit the building. That should've been where it stopped, at the latest. I really think it was a failure on the inside - or deliberate sabotage.
I'm still in disbelief that our defense systems would allow that. Either someone wasn't on the ball, or someone intentionally let them down. After that baseball player crashed into a building not so long ago, there was an interview with one of the general types who is in charge of responding to those kinds of things. He indicated some really fast readiness times for interceptor planes to be up and in the air in case of an attack. This did not happen after the first plane hit the building. That should've been where it stopped, at the latest. I really think it was a failure on the inside - or deliberate sabotage.
Maybe I'm just paranoid.
I also think you're paranoid, calling the British your pretend friends aswell.
I also think you're paranoid, calling the British your pretend friends aswell.
Don't get me wrong. You are my friend (not sure if you feel the same way, but oh well). I have nothing against the British people. I have a problem with oligarchs, from whatever country and of whatever nationality. They are the people who promote their self interest, without consideration of the detriment to others. If you deny that there are such interests in Britain working against the U.S. (and other nations), then perhaps you're not paranoid enough. And it's not like they don't exist in U.S., Russia, China, and other countries.
I think the point thehootman was trying to make is, would 911 have happened if the US just leave other countries alone and let them be?
I hear this argument all the time. It is with very good intention, I know. If we just get our grubby paws out of everyone's business, everyone will live happily ever after. The thing that gets forgotten here is that we are dealing with people who willingly slaughter women and children, and themselves. Do you actually believe that if the US becomes isolationist, these guys will suddenly play nice nice? I believe in being optimistic, and certainly prefer peace over war, but I also believe that it is unrealistic to think that if we \"leave other countries alone\" that the extreme ones will say \"ah, nevermind, we don't want to kill you anymore\".
I also think you're paranoid, calling the British your pretend friends aswell.
Don't get me wrong. You are my friend (not sure if you feel the same way, but oh well). I have nothing against the British people. I have a problem with oligarchs, from whatever country and of whatever nationality. They are the people who promote their self interest, without consideration of the detriment to others. If you deny that there are such interests in Britain working against the U.S. (and other nations), then perhaps you're not paranoid enough. And it's not like they don't exist in U.S., Russia, China, and other countries.
I wasn't being totally serious Iliace. . I kno what you're sayin
Personally I would hate the USA and it's Allies to if I was born in one of these country's that the USA or Britain \"stuck there nose into\". Having thousands of bombs being dropped on you and your family can't be fun.
The Allies have to see this thing with Iraq and Afghanistan out though otherwise more trouble for us in the future 100%
Personally I would hate the USA and it's Allies to if I was born in one of these country's that the USA or Britain \"stuck there nose into\". Having thousands of bombs being dropped on you and your family can't be fun.
The Allies have to see this thing with Iraq and Afghanistan out though otherwise more trouble for us in the future 100%
See that is part of the deal as well. Regardless of what biased media wants you to think. The people of Iraq are very excited & thankfull for what we have done for them!! I know a commander who led a companny of Army Support ops & presented a presentation vids pics Words experiences etc.. It's not like what we hear on liberal news shows at all very few seviceman & woman don't feel strongely about there mission & support our President!! Makes me wonder why so many Arm Chair Warriors want to sit back & complain & think they could do better & know what should be done over there etc.. The fuel ups with car bombs violence all of that is last ditch efforts to do all they can do to stop the free Iraq & for them to lose there grip & power they don't want free thinking people that can worship what they want do what they want etc.. They know there time is Short & there doing all they can do to frustrate God Given Rights & freedoms all people deserve to have!! If we don't stand up & help others WHO WILL?? The US will always help that's the way this great Nation is!!! I guese it stems from our Roots & foundations of this great Nation & heart of the American People in Large
Glad to see so many who understand the History and less of the media blah blah! My BIL works at the Pentagon and w th CIA.. he knows as well as the other staff that OBL and other understand the relation of historical minds and other things. OBL has said the US will see this as a Viet Nam. OBL studied the tactics of the VC and knew any fighting would be in tunnels, house to house and with NO uniforms. Yes, we knew that going in..
The secondary thing about isolationism.. well, what if US cut off all the aid to countries? Yes, we'd be isolated! We do that to create political alliances. Yes, we overlooked things with both Iran and Iraq in the 70's and 80's. The casualties were often seen as a 10 sec bit on NBC's news.. so we paid less attention not having 24/7 News cable stations at the time. WE paid less attention, but all the political leaders knew about it.
Anyway it's good to hear ideas from people. Nobody is or should cut down anyone's notion as to what this all is... agree to disagree. I can say I have learned many ideas and appreciations of opinions other than my own in all this. From talking to GI's especially who know more than CNN..I try to back up with History over rhetoric. Politics and religion can get heavily debated and passions can become aggressive. Glad to see cool heads!!
[quote=\" I can say I have learned many ideas and appreciations of opinions other than my own in all this. From talking to GI's especially who know more than CNN..I try to back up with History over rhetoric. Politics and religion can get heavily debated and passions can become aggressive. Glad to see cool heads!![/quote]
I too work with our men and women in the armed forces every day. I talk with them when they get back from Iraq. Also many of my coworkers contact for a time in Iraq. You get a much diffrent picture of this war when you actually talk with someone thats been there and see footage you might not see in the media. a very sobering experiance to say the least.
Its great to see debate like this on the board ....Like G3456 said \"cool headed debate\". Now if we can just get congress to act as mature as this forum we'd be in buisness :roll:
I'm still in disbelief that our defense systems would allow that.
I blame the 2nd hit on cutbacks. There was a naval base in NY harbor that was shut down a couple of years before 9/11. If even one ship was docked there, the 2nd plane would never have hit.
guitar3456 said: Fact is, we have politicized what should have been a swift end to conflict.. we changed rules of engagement that prohibits things the enemy takes advantage of... change the rules or the conflict will not be resolved.
Most of everything he talked about is right on IMHO
I am trying to keep a cool head, but I have seen a few posts that say the Iraqi people are uncivilized and need to be ruled in a barbaric way. Do you people actually believe this nonsense??? Sure there are Iraqis that are being brain-washed by a few fanatical leaders through religion, but there are so many highly educated Iraqis in Iraq, and right here in the US.
I live in southeastern Michigan, which has the highest population of Iraqis outside of Iraq itself. Many of whom are doctors, lawyers, teachers, business owners, etc. I have gone to school with them, worked with them, and done business with them. So many of them lost family members under such a barbaric regime. It's easy to criticize the US for being there when you're on the outside, but to say these people deserve such an unfair life is ridiculous! When the day comes when Iraq is truly liberated, will the same critics come forward? Or will they find something else to hate the US for? It would be great if all the critics would get to know someone before they call them \"uncivilized\".
For one, I can appreciate the angst and feel of a lingering war, and how it affects people hearing people dying everyday from senseless killing.
Prob is, it was not a matter of the Dems or Reps including the admin not expecting fallout. Our aim is not to occupy, and the Iraqi govt is really in control and either take our commanders recomm one way or another. It's their country trying to find it's democratic heartbeat. Other nations under empirical dictatorship do not want that to succeed since they know their rule would eventually be short lived. So they feed the insurgency.
We cannot monitor our own borders yet alone Iraqi borders. It's too vast. We also know our own country fought an ongoing battle during it's democratic birth.. so had Japan , so has Russia, and the factors are all the same..
The people have no idea what is next and it takes time to get things rethought, retrained, focused, and policed. They take advantage of eachother as did many of our early Americans post 1776. We really were NOT unified until after the Civil War.. nearly 100 yrs later. Japan did not take that long and other countries that have formed democracies fashioned a psuedo democracy in short order.. 5-10 yrs.
We knew this going in, it's getting the cooperation and letting the sovereign Gov'ts learn how to govern themselves and their people.. again.. we are micro-managing but not enforcing... enforcement would be seen as an occupation and deter their development even more. This is why the troop surge is being negated by many reps and dems here... Pres's idea is to at least control the capital city with more troops to sustain the insurgency from where the majority of individuals operate business, infrastructure and other things needed to \"represent\" for other cities.
Had the pres and the admin explained the painstaking process of our own trials and tribulations becoming a democracy as well as many other countries that fought for years and decades from being under imperialistic rule, we'd all have a better understanding and appreciation of what the suffrage is about.
In our own development we fought with the Indians, Mexicans, French, Canadians, Black American (slaves at that time) and others to defeat the imperialistic rule. We made many promises of freedoms to those that fought that we eventually did what??? fought against! For what reason did we fight our brethren? Territory! Look at Israel and Palestine... sound familiar? Iraq will be no different, but will and can come to a compromise if they so decide. Hopefully, they won't follow US History
they are seeing the indifference we speak of.. as in, how a democracy works..even among dividing lines.. peaceful compromises can lead to civilized nation.. we get upset at our leaders, but don't (we used to) run around shooting people that disagree.. but.. we have at that. MLK, JFK and others have suffered among indifference when trying to change our ideals. You cannot tell me today that every person or group is unified in this country.. we are just a little more rational as to how we express it.. with voice and banners, and a vote.. not IED's. Why?? because it's not that pressing to kill another for. At least that's what we have learned since adopting the rules governing our freedoms.
I think the point thehootman was trying to make is, would 911 have happened if the US just leave other countries alone and let them be?
I don't feel he was trying to justfy it?
Yes that is correct.
You dont remember the bali bombings? Australia has had its fair share of terrorism.
I think the point thehootman was trying to make is, would 911 have happened if the US just leave other countries alone and let them be?
I don't feel he was trying to justfy it?
Yes that is correct.
You dont remember the bali bombings? Australia has had its fair share of terrorism.
I appologize for the misunderstanding, Hootman.
Peace!
Comments
The attack on the Towers was an attack on non-combatants, not a military target like Pearl Harbor. These radicals are using our political correctness against us. In the 40s, people used the term \"We were Japped\".
Now people are saying, it's just a few of bad apples, not all of them. Well, a few bad apples attacked Pearl Harbor, and had us reeling for a while.
The Towers were attacked because some idiot wanted global recognition. Don't try to justify it. It just doesn't work. Innocent people from all walks of life were targeted, and killed in cold blood.
I don't feel he was trying to justfy it?
Thin twin towers were targeted because of efficiency of devistation how many people could be targeted at one time. As well as status symbols The largest buildings in the Largest city in US I mean they were going for the biggest. As far as any other reason why they attcked us or hate us the USA that's your opinion man. BUT Mine is this period we stand for freedom Religeous etc.. this nation USA is not what it once was for sure BUT it is still very much concidered a Christian Nation Look at the History Look at the Monuments even of the founders that were not Christian's they still new more Bible than the average Christian these days they believed & used prayer in there meetings & recognized God in Government frequently. These extremist HATE Christian's We are the Enemy in there eyes were false Prophets & teach lies & should be wiped out. That's why the attacks came & will continue to come if not held in check & fought against before they come again to some other target on US soil.
Maybe I'm just paranoid.
I'm British and I support my armed forces 100%.
I hate to hear about servicemen and women being killed in Iraq and Afganistan whatever there nationality, I just feel its a total waste.
I would rather see them doing some good protecting innocent people in some of those African country's who are being slaughtered by a bunch of rebels.
Some of these other Nato countries also need to start playin a bigger role and send more forces.
It always comes down to Britain and the U.S to commit forces, the other countries need to step up to the plate.
I also think you're paranoid, calling the British your pretend friends aswell.
I hear this argument all the time. It is with very good intention, I know. If we just get our grubby paws out of everyone's business, everyone will live happily ever after. The thing that gets forgotten here is that we are dealing with people who willingly slaughter women and children, and themselves. Do you actually believe that if the US becomes isolationist, these guys will suddenly play nice nice? I believe in being optimistic, and certainly prefer peace over war, but I also believe that it is unrealistic to think that if we \"leave other countries alone\" that the extreme ones will say \"ah, nevermind, we don't want to kill you anymore\".
I wasn't being totally serious Iliace.
The Allies have to see this thing with Iraq and Afghanistan out though otherwise more trouble for us in the future 100%
See that is part of the deal as well. Regardless of what biased media wants you to think. The people of Iraq are very excited & thankfull for what we have done for them!! I know a commander who led a companny of Army Support ops & presented a presentation vids pics Words experiences etc.. It's not like what we hear on liberal news shows at all very few seviceman & woman don't feel strongely about there mission & support our President!! Makes me wonder why so many Arm Chair Warriors want to sit back & complain & think they could do better & know what should be done over there etc.. The fuel ups with car bombs violence all of that is last ditch efforts to do all they can do to stop the free Iraq & for them to lose there grip & power they don't want free thinking people that can worship what they want do what they want etc.. They know there time is Short & there doing all they can do to frustrate God Given Rights & freedoms all people deserve to have!! If we don't stand up & help others WHO WILL?? The US will always help that's the way this great Nation is!!! I guese it stems from our Roots & foundations of this great Nation & heart of the American People in Large
The secondary thing about isolationism.. well, what if US cut off all the aid to countries? Yes, we'd be isolated! We do that to create political alliances. Yes, we overlooked things with both Iran and Iraq in the 70's and 80's. The casualties were often seen as a 10 sec bit on NBC's news.. so we paid less attention not having 24/7 News cable stations at the time. WE paid less attention, but all the political leaders knew about it.
Anyway it's good to hear ideas from people. Nobody is or should cut down anyone's notion as to what this all is... agree to disagree. I can say I have learned many ideas and appreciations of opinions other than my own in all this. From talking to GI's especially who know more than CNN..I try to back up with History over rhetoric. Politics and religion can get heavily debated and passions can become aggressive. Glad to see cool heads!!
I too work with our men and women in the armed forces every day. I talk with them when they get back from Iraq. Also many of my coworkers contact for a time in Iraq. You get a much diffrent picture of this war when you actually talk with someone thats been there and see footage you might not see in the media. a very sobering experiance to say the least.
Its great to see debate like this on the board ....Like G3456 said \"cool headed debate\". Now if we can just get congress to act as mature as this forum we'd be in buisness :roll:
I blame the 2nd hit on cutbacks. There was a naval base in NY harbor that was shut down a couple of years before 9/11. If even one ship was docked there, the 2nd plane would never have hit.
Most of everything he talked about is right on IMHO
I live in southeastern Michigan, which has the highest population of Iraqis outside of Iraq itself. Many of whom are doctors, lawyers, teachers, business owners, etc. I have gone to school with them, worked with them, and done business with them. So many of them lost family members under such a barbaric regime. It's easy to criticize the US for being there when you're on the outside, but to say these people deserve such an unfair life is ridiculous! When the day comes when Iraq is truly liberated, will the same critics come forward? Or will they find something else to hate the US for? It would be great if all the critics would get to know someone before they call them \"uncivilized\".
Prob is, it was not a matter of the Dems or Reps including the admin not expecting fallout. Our aim is not to occupy, and the Iraqi govt is really in control and either take our commanders recomm one way or another. It's their country trying to find it's democratic heartbeat. Other nations under empirical dictatorship do not want that to succeed since they know their rule would eventually be short lived. So they feed the insurgency.
We cannot monitor our own borders yet alone Iraqi borders. It's too vast. We also know our own country fought an ongoing battle during it's democratic birth.. so had Japan , so has Russia, and the factors are all the same..
The people have no idea what is next and it takes time to get things rethought, retrained, focused, and policed. They take advantage of eachother as did many of our early Americans post 1776. We really were NOT unified until after the Civil War.. nearly 100 yrs later. Japan did not take that long and other countries that have formed democracies fashioned a psuedo democracy in short order.. 5-10 yrs.
We knew this going in, it's getting the cooperation and letting the sovereign Gov'ts learn how to govern themselves and their people.. again.. we are micro-managing but not enforcing... enforcement would be seen as an occupation and deter their development even more. This is why the troop surge is being negated by many reps and dems here... Pres's idea is to at least control the capital city with more troops to sustain the insurgency from where the majority of individuals operate business, infrastructure and other things needed to \"represent\" for other cities.
In our own development we fought with the Indians, Mexicans, French, Canadians, Black American (slaves at that time) and others to defeat the imperialistic rule. We made many promises of freedoms to those that fought that we eventually did what??? fought against! For what reason did we fight our brethren? Territory! Look at Israel and Palestine... sound familiar? Iraq will be no different, but will and can come to a compromise if they so decide. Hopefully, they won't follow US History
they are seeing the indifference we speak of.. as in, how a democracy works..even among dividing lines.. peaceful compromises can lead to civilized nation.. we get upset at our leaders, but don't (we used to) run around shooting people that disagree.. but.. we have at that. MLK, JFK and others have suffered among indifference when trying to change our ideals. You cannot tell me today that every person or group is unified in this country.. we are just a little more rational as to how we express it.. with voice and banners, and a vote.. not IED's. Why?? because it's not that pressing to kill another for. At least that's what we have learned since adopting the rules governing our freedoms.
Not just in Iraq, or even the middle east:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23384657-details/We+do+use+books+that+call+Jews+'apes'+admits+head+of+Islamic+school/article.do
You are exactly right. I was just pointing out that these people are not uncivilized barbarians that should be ruled by oppression and fear.
Yes that is correct.
You dont remember the bali bombings? Australia has had its fair share of terrorism.
I appologize for the misunderstanding, Hootman.
Peace!