A) The Supermodel stuff is also based on work by Digitech. The author claims they are made by warping existing factory models.
Perhaps, but by the same logic you could also claim that any software is based on the work of the CPU manufacturer and therefore cannot be copyrighted.
Software ( Programs) can be copyrighted
Supermodels and other patches are data for a program to work upon !!
I suppose data cannot be copyrighted.
If above is true, then surely Data generated by re-processing data that was originally collected by others cannot be copyrighted !
If above is true, then surely Data generated by re-processing data that was originally collected by others cannot be copyrighted!
But as you so aptly pointed out, you cannot tell what the original data was by looking only at the new resulting data... and insofar as that goes, your argument doesn't hold up. If this were entirely true, then every other almanac, street atlas, etc would be in violation of copyright laws.
Secondly, I don't think it makes any difference whether you generate the \"data\" from scratch to come up with the necessary variables and coefficients, or do it by manipulating existing data. I know archon will disagree here But if you have a sample frequency response that you're matching, once it's matched you're golden. GeNeTx provides the framework for \"reading\" the data and making it useful, but not the data itself - so somewhat like Acrobat Reader and PDF files. Are you telling me that when I write an original essay and save it as PDF, I'm manipulating the 26 letters of the alphabet and thus violating copyrights?
I call it Line Drawing Fallacy. Also the name of my next solo project!
and if you can i want some cash for the one i posted dammit!! 8)
Archon,
You can man. You just put a bunch of your Hypermodels together, and go get a CD of them manufactured and sell them like Mike did. The choice is yours.
God Bless!!!
Partch
yup its the principle i feel strongly about too - that people can make money out of some patches is something i feel shouldnt happen.
where do you draw the line anyway - if i make a patch out of stock amp models then digitech own it but if i blend two of these amp models i own it?
awww man until digitech steps in and says something this is gonna go on and on - patches and hypermodels have been free and shared since the 90s when all this stuff got started (go and check out the genesis/RP and GNX1,2,3,4 forums) - i just dont like the way things have changed lately. it used to be someone would produce thousand of patches for the sheer love of the community but now they do it for cash and you can sign up for even more special services - or maybe its just all the newbies who come along and have only been here for 5 seconds like \"hey man you just shut man - i can spend my money i want to man!\" these foolish children are helping the phenomenon to perpetuate and they dont even realise what they are destroying.
ili - if you edit this post i will haunt you down :twisted:
8) see - classic CIA tactic - you are going in and 'planting' typos to derail my argument and make me seem less thinking good at than what i think iam as good at thinking at,, and stuff..
doood! you done it again! im telling connie (does she still exist - is she like the architect in the Matrix in a room full of tv screens looking at all potentialities?)
8) see - classic CIA tactic - you are going in and 'planting' typos to derail my argument and make me seem less thinking good at than what i think iam as good at thinking at,, and stuff..
I are be think then that archon do if type quite around good
Did you even look at the history of all of this? I suggest you do and you may see as others have, that this started with users that ASKED for it. We had the means, equip, access, the tools and the people..
Concerns came from users that cannot afford to buy new gear every 2yrs begged for a model pack.. that's all it is afterall.. a very very big model pack.... to increase and enhance their product. All the reps knew what we were doing.. many assisted, many asked about our methods.. we shared that with them. Again, if you don't own them just like POD Model packs.. they won't sound right!! We knew there were pirates and added protections.
We do not copyright Hypermodels.. where did that come from??? that's mainly others assuming certain things.. that have no knowledge of what is involved.. nice
All I ever said to anyone, whether in email, or in a post
THE NAMES OF THE MFG'S ARE TRADEMARKS.. the NAMES OF THE ARTISTS may have a Copyright or TM.. All I ever said was JUST LIKE any other post.. be sure NOT to include a TM NAME!! What is so hard about changing a patch from \"Tool\" to Tool 1. Or Methaney to \"PATMETH\"
The same as for users suggestion or endorsements of this or any other non GNX, non Digitech product.. I don't see anyone getting upset about \"get the Sony headphones\"
In leui of this mess I will now step back and regretfully resign as moderator. I will continue to support Digitech and their quest to create the most demanding unit on the market. We have a long standing relationship with Harman Group and with respect to that.. have made this decision. In regards to that, do not bash eachother for one opinion or another.. be as professional as we all have been. the same courtesies should always be extended to those that have varied opinions. Thanks to all !!
I was the 3rd person to post on this thread. I asked for it to please stop! My fear was that the constant harping on this subject was going to cause Mike to say enough is enough, I'm out of here. Well, the MINORITY got their way. This totally sucks!! I only hope that Mike will make himself available to continue answering questions, but I wouldn't blame him if he doesn't. If not, any one of the bashers have his knowledge and understanding of this equipment going to step up? Anyone??? I didn't think so!!
yeh well sorry mate i refuse to burst into tears - i havent asked mike to resign and i havent wanted him to cease being a moderator i just wanted him to stop making money from the forum by making patches.
I understand that there was a consensus in the GNX4 forum back in the day but i havent heard one single argument in this whole sorry thing (which i started - sorry 'bout that) that justifies ANYONE charging for a patch.
I notice that he has decided to stop moderating but i infer from his post that he hasnt decided to stop selling his patches.
you dont fool me you know - you throw a few 'freebies' into the pot every now and again as a pr stunt, and now you're having a tantrum for the sympathy vote
- look we all live in democracies - you apparently can keep making money out of this and i cant stop you - but the price you will have to pay is me complaining about it - and you cant stop me from doing so because i have as much right as you to express my opinion.
OH! and i just remembered - if you havent copyrighted these things then how come everytime we broach the fact that some of us have supermodel discs that we havent paid for you start getting all uppioty about black marketeering and so on? and the copy protection you keep talking about?
you dont make anysense - this is just a meal ticket for you and you know it and i dont like it and my gloves are off and respect is out the window - you have never answered one of my questions directly about this nad ive had it now.
Comments
Software ( Programs) can be copyrighted
Supermodels and other patches are data for a program to work upon !!
I suppose data cannot be copyrighted.
If above is true, then surely Data generated by re-processing data that was originally collected by others cannot be copyrighted !
he saying you cant copywrite a hyermodel
i agree
and if you can i want some cash for the one i posted dammit!! 8)
Secondly, I don't think it makes any difference whether you generate the \"data\" from scratch to come up with the necessary variables and coefficients, or do it by manipulating existing data. I know archon will disagree here
I call it Line Drawing Fallacy. Also the name of my next solo project!
Archon,
You can man. You just put a bunch of your Hypermodels together, and go get a CD of them manufactured and sell them like Mike did. The choice is yours.
God Bless!!!
Partch
I don't even so much care about the hypermodels, it's the principle of the thing that I feel strongly about.
where do you draw the line anyway - if i make a patch out of stock amp models then digitech own it but if i blend two of these amp models i own it?
awww man until digitech steps in and says something this is gonna go on and on - patches and hypermodels have been free and shared since the 90s when all this stuff got started (go and check out the genesis/RP and GNX1,2,3,4 forums) - i just dont like the way things have changed lately. it used to be someone would produce thousand of patches for the sheer love of the community but now they do it for cash and you can sign up for even more special services - or maybe its just all the newbies who come along and have only been here for 5 seconds like \"hey man you just shut man - i can spend my money i want to man!\" these foolish children are helping the phenomenon to perpetuate and they dont even realise what they are destroying.
ili - if you edit this post i will haunt you down :twisted:
I are be think then that archon do if type quite around good
Concerns came from users that cannot afford to buy new gear every 2yrs begged for a model pack.. that's all it is afterall.. a very very big model pack.... to increase and enhance their product. All the reps knew what we were doing.. many assisted, many asked about our methods.. we shared that with them. Again, if you don't own them just like POD Model packs.. they won't sound right!! We knew there were pirates and added protections.
We do not copyright Hypermodels.. where did that come from??? that's mainly others assuming certain things.. that have no knowledge of what is involved.. nice
All I ever said to anyone, whether in email, or in a post
THE NAMES OF THE MFG'S ARE TRADEMARKS.. the NAMES OF THE ARTISTS may have a Copyright or TM.. All I ever said was JUST LIKE any other post.. be sure NOT to include a TM NAME!! What is so hard about changing a patch from \"Tool\" to Tool 1. Or Methaney to \"PATMETH\"
The same as for users suggestion or endorsements of this or any other non GNX, non Digitech product.. I don't see anyone getting upset about \"get the Sony headphones\"
In leui of this mess I will now step back and regretfully resign as moderator. I will continue to support Digitech and their quest to create the most demanding unit on the market. We have a long standing relationship with Harman Group and with respect to that.. have made this decision. In regards to that, do not bash eachother for one opinion or another.. be as professional as we all have been. the same courtesies should always be extended to those that have varied opinions. Thanks to all !!
I understand that there was a consensus in the GNX4 forum back in the day but i havent heard one single argument in this whole sorry thing (which i started - sorry 'bout that) that justifies ANYONE charging for a patch.
I notice that he has decided to stop moderating but i infer from his post that he hasnt decided to stop selling his patches.
you dont fool me you know - you throw a few 'freebies' into the pot every now and again as a pr stunt, and now you're having a tantrum for the sympathy vote
- look we all live in democracies - you apparently can keep making money out of this and i cant stop you - but the price you will have to pay is me complaining about it - and you cant stop me from doing so because i have as much right as you to express my opinion.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OH! and i just remembered - if you havent copyrighted these things then how come everytime we broach the fact that some of us have supermodel discs that we havent paid for you start getting all uppioty about black marketeering and so on? and the copy protection you keep talking about?
you dont make anysense - this is just a meal ticket for you and you know it and i dont like it and my gloves are off and respect is out the window - you have never answered one of my questions directly about this nad ive had it now.