Finally made a tough choice...
I have been playing out again after being idle for some time now, got to try and make a few extra bucks wherever I can these days. Been doing a few shows as a duo with a guy I have been jamming and gigging with for the last 15 years. He sings lead and harmonies but doesn't play an instrument other than a penny whistle he plays on a couple of Marshall Tucker tunes we do. We play through My gear that I set up and tear down for every show. He just shows up a few minutes before we start, sings a few harmonies, and then schmoozes with the crowd after the show while I tear down and pack up. He then takes 50% of the take at the end of the night. Here in Florida in the off-season, gigs are hard to get and don't pay a great deal, so you get the picture.
Two weeks ago, we were scheduled to play a show that started at 7pm, I arrived at 6 to set up and as usual, no Tom. Called him three times over the course of an hour with no response. He was a no show at 7 and needless to say I was a bit miffed. Didn't end up playing in the end cause the bar was empty, it was the night before the 4th, so no one was out and about. But that doesn't excuse him for not showing up. Didn't hear from him until tues. and even then he didn't tell me why he didn't show or at least call me to let me know what was going on. That was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, so I fired him. That same day I went over to my local Music store and got the new Digitech Vocalist VL3D. Had heard alot about these harmony processors and watched the youtube demos, but was still a little skeptical. Any harmony processor I had used in the past sounded like Alvin and the Chipmunks, not very realistic. Not so with this musIQ technology, this thing ROCKS. It gives me 2 harmonies along with my lead vocal, and it sounds awesome. It's not prefect by any means, and you have to play mistake free or it will be all over the place, but for doing covers in a solo gig this thing is the cat's patootie. Spot on harmonies for Eagles, Beatles, CSNY, Marshall Tucker, you name it. It won't make you a good singer, but if you have decent pitch than this thing will blow you away. I will be using it live for the first time this Friday, can't wait. This thing also allows me to scale my rig back to my Crate acoustic amp, Vocalist VL3D, my acoustic and a Mic. Setup goes from 45 min. to 15 min. and a lot easier on the back. This setup will do me for all but outdoor gigs. This thing is a godsend.
I think I've made the right decision, only time will tell. Does anyone else here have one of these harmonizers like the VL2 or VL4? I'd love to hear some feedback from others who have used these things for a while.
Peat
Two weeks ago, we were scheduled to play a show that started at 7pm, I arrived at 6 to set up and as usual, no Tom. Called him three times over the course of an hour with no response. He was a no show at 7 and needless to say I was a bit miffed. Didn't end up playing in the end cause the bar was empty, it was the night before the 4th, so no one was out and about. But that doesn't excuse him for not showing up. Didn't hear from him until tues. and even then he didn't tell me why he didn't show or at least call me to let me know what was going on. That was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, so I fired him. That same day I went over to my local Music store and got the new Digitech Vocalist VL3D. Had heard alot about these harmony processors and watched the youtube demos, but was still a little skeptical. Any harmony processor I had used in the past sounded like Alvin and the Chipmunks, not very realistic. Not so with this musIQ technology, this thing ROCKS. It gives me 2 harmonies along with my lead vocal, and it sounds awesome. It's not prefect by any means, and you have to play mistake free or it will be all over the place, but for doing covers in a solo gig this thing is the cat's patootie. Spot on harmonies for Eagles, Beatles, CSNY, Marshall Tucker, you name it. It won't make you a good singer, but if you have decent pitch than this thing will blow you away. I will be using it live for the first time this Friday, can't wait. This thing also allows me to scale my rig back to my Crate acoustic amp, Vocalist VL3D, my acoustic and a Mic. Setup goes from 45 min. to 15 min. and a lot easier on the back. This setup will do me for all but outdoor gigs. This thing is a godsend.
I think I've made the right decision, only time will tell. Does anyone else here have one of these harmonizers like the VL2 or VL4? I'd love to hear some feedback from others who have used these things for a while.
Peat
Comments
Used it live and some recording. Have run it mixed and on a separate channel. Have used it for both harmonies and vocal effects - you can, in fact, make yourself sound like Alvin.
In short - it works.
Anyway...I don't have one or use one. I sing like cripe to begin with, so the last thing I want to hear is a harmony of it. :oops:
But I've heard great things about the VL2. I imagine it's like any other - GIGO, or \"play/sing clean or you'll sound like cripe\" - but at least you know it'll be there at the gig with you. And less gear to huff/set up/tear down can only be a plus...
The VL3D has midi in out/thru as well as USB midi for all you KB players, and it is a tabletop unit so no bending over to push the tiny little buttons....I use my GNX remote f/s to toggle between A/B in presets and turn harmonies on/off. Many more bells and whistles than the VL2 for the same price...bonus! You are right iliace, it just plain works. I could see this thing working well with a band as well as solo, the possibilties are endless. would sound even better imo if someone other than the lead was triggering the harmonies, if you know what i mean.
I think I made the right choice Shredd, the guy has been driving me nuts for years, it was time for a changing of the guard. The VL3d will never be late, never get drunk on stage, and I only have to pay it once. Before I know it, it will be paying me
Peat
I prefer VL4 to VL2 because it stores presets, so you can program different settings for different songs. And, of course it has the settings for various harmony styles, which makes presets much more useful.
I'm looking forward to using it in the studio as well, but that will have to wait I guess cause right now I'm in the process of moving so my studio has been disassembled for the move and the place we are moving into does not have the space to set up a permanent recording environment. It's a real bummer for me but I will figure something out. This economy is really starting to get to me in more ways than one.
I haven't heard from my ex-partner, which is probably for the best, I would probably just vent 15 years worth of frustration on his butt and let him know that a little silver box does his job better than he does. I just don't need the added stress at this time.
Tonight is my first chance to try this thing out in a live situation, and I am pumped to try it out on an audience. I'm looking forward to peoples' reaction when I kick on the harmonies. It's going to be interesting to see how the crowd reacts to one musician belting out 3 parts. I can't wait. I'll let you guys know how things turn out.
Peat
I watched the demo vid at DT.com, and it's insane. The guys sings an old Dylan tune and the harmonies are terrific. Great little unit.
Good luck!!
Sounds like your ex-partner was not pulling his load. The best revenge is having success without him. Good luck.
All in all it was a good gig, the crowd had a good time, and for the fist time in a long time, I went home feeling good. A really successful evening all around. Digitech rocks!
Wonder if a VL will do wonders for a guy who can't sing.. :oops: LoL ME!
Once again Glad to hear it went off Good!
It's great to hear the VL worked for you; sounds like it was a winner, and the crowd obviously dug what it does.
And you can hardly beat a 15-minute setup. 8) Not to mention $20 tips!!!
Hey 'taus - you should DEFinitely try to show him the thing in a good light. I'm sure he thinks the thing will somehow debase or upstage him, but I think it's an amazing device.
There's a great demo vid at dt.com, and I'm sure there's plenty on youtube. THIS LINK (http://www.digitech.com/products/Vocalist/VocalistResources.php) has a good vid, as well as a link to more youtube vids demonstrating the thing. And THIS link (http://www.digitech.com/products/Vocalist/Flash_Demo/VocalistLive4Video_MarcCooper.php) is an official, guy-works-for-DT vid of the VL4. Excellent.
I know you've got good singers in your band, but these things are killer. Worth checking into.
If your lead singer gives you cripe, remind him of my favorite musician joke:
Q: How many lead singers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Only one. He just holds the light bulb, and the world revolves around him.
As far as my lead singer, he comes from a folk singing background and moving to Rock 'n' Roll was a big step out of his comfort zone. The guy is a good singer but as you know, they have been kind of anti-tech (no drum machines for practice, etc....). Anyway, I know that the big guys use vocal processors to enhance their God given talents and I personally don't see that as a negative.
After reading this thread, and checking out your links, maybe I'll end up purchasing a vocalist for myself. Only problem is, I am not a good singer to begin with, so I don't know how bad I would sound harmonized to myself - if you know what I mean. Tucopeat's thread has me more encouraged then before, so who knows?
Great thread, Tucopeat. Take care.
The upside is that these new units take their harmonizing input from the git'r, not your voice (right?!?). Assuming your git'r's in tune, that would help.
Also worth noting is that the VL4 and the VL3D both have pitch correction, which would help tighten things up for me, since I often sing a bit flat 'cuz I'm deaf as dirt. Almost.
So I'm pretty eager to try one out. But I haven't gone there, since I'm unemployed, my studio and instruments are all in storage, I'm living in someone else's house, and haven't strummed a chord in months.
In addition, Shania won't return my phone calls, my breath stinks, and I've forgotten how to finger a G string.
I'm not gonna say this thing will make you a singer, but I find that the pitch correction is quite usable, and after you use it for a while you will find your pitch will get better cause you will hear what the correct pitch is and you will go to it. not sure if I'm explaining this the right way, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say. As far as your frontman goes, I felt the same way as he for quite some time, how could a box sing harmony and not sound like a box? Well, it's not perfect by any means, but the harmonies this thing produces are very usable in a live situation. If you don't tell them, the audience will never know, they will just be blown away by your bands super tight harmonies. Just run the rhythm guitar into it and then through to his amp and it will do all the wok from there. In a band setup, it might even work better to have on of the other guys sing the same lead lines as your frontman, only with the harmony mix set hard clockwise so only the harmony gets output to the mixer. Then the harmonies will have a different range and timber than the lead vocal. That setup may be more convincing and natural sounding than just running the lead mic to it. I really couldn't say cause i do it solo, but even then, the harmonies sound pretty convincing to the average listener, and I'm pretty sure most of the folks we play for are your average listener. I've never played a gig for a room full of record producers, and I hope I never do.
To sum it up this thing is great, no matter which model you go for. I got the VL3D cause it had more bells and whistles than the VL2 for the same amount of cash, and it's a tabletop box so i dont have to bend over to change settings. If you've got the extra cash the VL4 has even more options ( although it has no midi like the VL3D) and lots more presets.
I checked out the Vocalist links and really liked the demos. For my use, I am thinking the VL4, but that's $499 and out of my reach at present. One other concern I have is that all these Vocalist processors seem to be geared for Guitar/Singer. Nothing wrong with that, but currently I play bass in my band. I don't know if the vocalist would work with just a bass guitar input. Anybody got a clue on that one?
Again, thanks to Tucopeat for my GAS attack. By the way, Tucopeat, how would you rate your singing, and would you post some of your clips with the VLD3 for us? I am anything but a lead singer, and I'm just afraid that my real experience with a Vocalist Live would not sound anywhere near as good as the Digitech demo. Having said that, I once saw a band and thought the singer was just outstanding. Halfway through the gig his vocal processor died on him...then he didn't sound any better than I could have done. Lesson learned is that a great vocal processor can make it possible for an average singer to sound good, and I suppose a good singer could sound great.
I have always been a singer....I think I do alright. Check the soundclick link in my signature....you can hear my vocals there.
Unfortunately, I'm in the process of moving right now and my studio has been disassembled so for now I can't do any recording. After things settle down and we get moved I will try and post a few clips for you.
there are no magic boxes for musicians....no processor will make you a singer any more than buying a new stompbox will make you a great guitar player. If you have a decent voice and can get close to pitch, then the Vocalist will help you out, but don't expect miracles. The VL3D and VL4 both have pitch correction, but it needs to be used sparingly. If you crank it up too far it doesn't sound pleasent, but rather harsh and digital.
If you can, try and demo one at a local music store.
I hope this helps you 'taus...
peat
But most of the pros are using them now live and in the studio (not necessarily the vl line, but vocal processers). We now use it on many different tunes and once you get it programmed and learn how to use the footpedal, man I don't know what we would do without it. You can have monster players in your band, but if your vocals are mediocre, its never gonna please the crowd like great vocals will.....even if some of the harmonies are coming out of a processer). Get it, learn how to use it, and you will never go back.
peace
JV
I'm thinking you just met Erik Brann.
The original guitarist for Iron Butterfly was Danny Weis but, he wasn't with IB that long and he lives all the way up in Toronto anyway. It was Erik that was with IB most of those years, even during the In-a-Gadd-Da-Vida recording.
Its always a boon to have someone like that, who has already made it big, give a complement on your talent. Congrats!
<edit> Oh hang on, just noticed your Canadian flag. Maybe it was Danny Weis instead.
I'm happy for you and your new partner!
I've watched the demos on various video sites and I must admit it blew me away.
I have a friend who listens to metal, heavy metal, heavier metal and er....death metal
All the best for forthcoming events Peat.
Peace.
I'm not sure but Eric does ring a bell, ( I'm terrible with names). I live and play in Florida, been here some 15 yrs. now. I came here from Canada (the Maratimes). For me its a real thrill when I have a celeb in the audience, especially when they come up and tell me how much they are enjoying the tunes I play.
Played again this past Friday with my new background singers
I guess they figure folks either have ESP or they may just have an epiphany as they drive by the place. I try and promote my gigs as much as I can on my own, but I only know so many people, and as many come as they can. Most of my friends are in the 40+ crowd, so we are not the party animals we used to be. It's impossible for them to come week in ,week out with jobs and kids and responsibilites.
Anyone have any ideas how to get more folks out without spending all my gig money on advertising? I would love to hear any suggestions you all may have.
The most positive thing in this whole deal for me is that I'm actually having fun again playing live. Something I wasn't able to say when I was playing the Duo.
So many things that have been discussed ...... I think some small flyers with a web address would work well for you...As it is now no advertising at all and the place gets people... But the thing is You Keep them there!
So they like you! a simple web page just for a gig schedule I think would work fine. Word of mouth should be all you need from what it sounds like imo. I belive your IP usually allows you to set up a free page.. it could be that simple... or there are other options you will have to look into if you want to get more elaborate if you go that route..
A few yrs back a local steak house use to have a one man show. And they use to set him up outside on the patio in the summer. Entertainment some eats, a few cold ones after and watch the show! It was fun... He did some covers but also did his own stuff, there were a few tunes I enjoyed even purchased his cd.... But after a few shows it got boring he did the exact same routine everytime! So we finally stopped going... But when I first saw him afterwards I DID go check out his schedule on his web site! Now cept for that place his other gigs were just to farther than I cared to travel.... point is People do check out web sites ( atleast I do! LoL )
My personal opinion is find a couple routines and mix an match them to keep from getting mundane!.. Sounds like your doing great WTG peat!
I sure do envy you guys who can play! and Sing!..
The least I could get away with, would be a duo.. No vocals from me :shock: :oops: :oops:
I get a chance to get back down I will be at your show mate! Keep up the good work! ie break a leg!
I also printed table fliers for the management to put out, but they are only seen by the folks you already have in the door. Not very effective for bringing in new customers.
I never play the same set two nights in a row, I get bored listening to myself play the same songs over and over again, so I try to mix it up as much as I can. There are a few songs I play every gig, but they are the sing along favorites that always seem to go over no matter how many times you play them. American Pie comes to mind as a prime example, the audience never seems to tire of the classic tunes that they know the words to, they sing along and feel that they are part of the show.
The crowds at the Fox are pretty small most nights, 20-40 people usually, but most stay till the end so I guess they are enjoying what they are hearing. I am beginning to see a few repeat customers that aren't friend or family, so that is a good thing. It takes time to get the word out when you're doing it without any help from management and you're working with very limited means.
I've got some other clubs in my pipeline that I hope to hear back from soon, some of which seem to understand better the need to promote the events they have going on. I would like to be playing more than 1 night a week, 3 or 4 nights would be great, especially these days when the construction trade is as dismal as it is here in FLA. Gotta pay the bills any way you can. Thanks again Rawb.
Shredd, thanks for the heads up on that thread, i found it and read every post, lots of very useful info there. thanks to all who threw in their 2 cents worth.
I will just keep on keeping on and do all that I can and hope that club management gets the hints and suggestions I throw their way.
I guess I'm not proud enough of my abilities to inflict them on others, paying or not. Either that, or I haven't found out where Shania hangs out looking for cold ones, live music, and lustful fan-boys...
I just bought MUvoice software and have played around with it, and supprisingly enough it sounded pretty good, or I should say it made me sound better which still isnt saying much considering my vocals not that good.
I'm not sure if you can use it live. It definitly wasn't plug in and go. Have to have iLoc for it. To me its almost like recording software, you gotta play around with it for a while to learn things.
Unfortunatly, I won't be able to do anything until I get my studio out of storage which is not til Aug 6th.
Anyway, I'm rambling, just wanted to tell you my brief experience with MuVoice. They do have a demo on their website.
This MUvoice software looks pretty cool. I had not heard of this ( looks pretty new), but just check out the website and a few youtube vids. There appears to be a bunch of stuff you can do with this software, they even claim you can use it live. I don't use a computer in my live set, but I could see this being very useful in the studio. The VL3d I got is very much a plug and play type of device, not much tweaking has to be done to get useful sounds out of the box. For me that's a huge plus when it comes to performing live. The less I have to think about the better.
I will be looking into the MUvoice a little deeper I think, looks like it might be a great addition to the studio. Good luck with it and keep us up to date with how it is working for you.
So I'm experiencing a lot of frustration also (see my recent thread http://www.guitarworkstation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9439). So in the meantime, I'm trying to find a way to keep my savings from vanishing, while at the same time keep up my twice-daily phone calls to Shania...