VST Plugins for DAW
I have a VST wrapper for PTP and I also have Cubase LE 4 which I am told usees VST plugins without any additional upgrades. I am starting to get back into some MIDI music programming and would like to move to software synths (VST). In the past, I have used my external keyboards with their built in sounds, but I have been reading that VST software synths are the way to go. This is new territory for me, and I have a few questions for anybody who can help.
I am wondering if a midi controller keyboard such as the E-Mu keyboards http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.com/product/EMu-Xboard-25-USBMIDI-Controller?sku=706283 which advertise over 1,500 'sounds' is what I am looking for? Are these sounds driven by VST plugins? With that many sounds to choose from, I am thinking that it must be done by software because it appears that the keyboard itself has no speaker. But, are these sounds VST synths? Is this a product that would be useful to me? I don't care much about a 25, 49, or 61 key keyboard - I'm just mainly interested in the ability to access the sounds via midi in either PTP or Cubase LE 4.
Are there other software synths that would be better to explore? I think the only software synth to come with Cubase was Halion. So I am thinking that my choice of sounds currently is limited to that plugin. Like I said, I'm new to this software VST plugin synth work and am just looking for a little guidance into products that will not bust the bank as I explore this new aspect of music. My ultimate goal is to program midi drums and possibly strings, brass, etc... as background to music that I have recorded live, or start out with the midi backing tracks and record live guitar/vocals on the other tracks in my DAWs. I have bought a book on Midi Editing in Cubase and have started going through it, but it has not talked about using different software synths at this point. I'm sure that will be in later chapters. So right now all I am hearing is the standard GM midi sounds by my computer's soundboard - which are not all that great.
Any suggestions to websites and/or freeware software synths on this topic would be much appreciated. I'm trying to keep my investment on a tight budget with this project until I know more about how to use software synths, etc... Thanks in advance for any help.
I am wondering if a midi controller keyboard such as the E-Mu keyboards http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.com/product/EMu-Xboard-25-USBMIDI-Controller?sku=706283 which advertise over 1,500 'sounds' is what I am looking for? Are these sounds driven by VST plugins? With that many sounds to choose from, I am thinking that it must be done by software because it appears that the keyboard itself has no speaker. But, are these sounds VST synths? Is this a product that would be useful to me? I don't care much about a 25, 49, or 61 key keyboard - I'm just mainly interested in the ability to access the sounds via midi in either PTP or Cubase LE 4.
Are there other software synths that would be better to explore? I think the only software synth to come with Cubase was Halion. So I am thinking that my choice of sounds currently is limited to that plugin. Like I said, I'm new to this software VST plugin synth work and am just looking for a little guidance into products that will not bust the bank as I explore this new aspect of music. My ultimate goal is to program midi drums and possibly strings, brass, etc... as background to music that I have recorded live, or start out with the midi backing tracks and record live guitar/vocals on the other tracks in my DAWs. I have bought a book on Midi Editing in Cubase and have started going through it, but it has not talked about using different software synths at this point. I'm sure that will be in later chapters. So right now all I am hearing is the standard GM midi sounds by my computer's soundboard - which are not all that great.
Any suggestions to websites and/or freeware software synths on this topic would be much appreciated. I'm trying to keep my investment on a tight budget with this project until I know more about how to use software synths, etc... Thanks in advance for any help.
Comments
To be honest, I'm not experienced with MIDI synth plugins. I find it much easier to work with an outboard box.
More plug-ins than you can shake a stick at, including some soft synths.
Enjoy!
I currently use Reason 4.0 with my Akai MPK49. Works like a charm (but not free).
Yes, the specs state \"Proteus X LE Desktop Sound Module with over 1,000 sounds....\", which seems to be the same software package regardless if you buy the 25, 49, or 61 key controller. Are these sound plugins VST?
I'll check out the link, thanks. I spent a good part of the day trying out my midi setup with Cubase, and right now I am hitting a wall. I hope to get to VST plugins soon, but at the moment, my midi keyboard itself is not recording properly. Don't know why, but I have a major time delay between hitting the keyboard note and the data recording to Cubase (2 measures later....). I hear the note almost immediately, but for some reason there is a major delay on the recording of the midi data. I'll have to work past this hurdle before I move on to VST plugins.
Yeah, I know that MIDI controllers do not have onboard speakers or sounds, so only the midi data is transmitted. It appears that I am in the same boat as you is respect to having only experience with outboard keyboards. I have successfully used Yamaha GM keyboards for about 20 years, but now that I have Cubase with VST capabilities, I thought it was time to teach this old dog some new tricks. I have been reading that VST plugins/software synths are the best thing going right now (in terms of cost and choice) for the home DAWs. That's why I am interested in the E-Mu midi controller that comes with \"1000's\" of sounds. Looks like guitar3456 has some knowledge with that package.
If I can get my basic midi setup working correctly and then work up to the point where I can use the VST software synth that came with Cubase LE 4, then I think I will be buying myself one of the E-Mu controllers with the software packages this Christmas season. I probably agree that it would be just easier to record audio from my Yamaha keyboard directly into my recorder, but I'm trying to expand my knowledge into the area of software synths.
I can tell you so far that I really miss a good manual for Cubase LE 4. I am working through the etext documentation tutorials on the disc, but already I have had problems recording midi tracks (time delay issue). But I really can't see me spending $500 on the full Cubase 4 suite just to get better support.
I was actually able to record midi data with the GNX4/PTP package without much problem. But this Cubase LE 4 program has more bells and whistles and I hope to get it up and running, mainly because it supports VST plugins whereas PTP needs a wrapper. Also, my Zoom HD16CD came with Cubase LE 4. I use the Zoom to record our gigs live (8 tracks) and it has a great interface with Cubase LE 4 that makes transfers between the hardware/software really easy. So my PTP has been sidelined for the most part lately.
I am not too excited about learning yet another software program, but I can see advantages getting my knowledge in this area more current.
Having said that, I just read an article on Kiss and they talked about how they write and demo their songs to their bandmates. They simply use a $29.00 mono cassette recorder and record their song with only a guitar and voice. If the song is any good, they say, it will sound good on a simple cassette tape. And if the song is not any good, no amount of pro recording or tricks is going to make it better. The song has to be strong on its own before it gets more consideration for \"real\" recording in the studio. Anyway, I enjoyed reading about the old school method of songwriting they use. A singer, a guitar, and a mono cassette tape recorder.....
For Cubase LE
There are many good tutorials here:
http://www.steinbergusers.com/videos.php
I have the X-Board 49 and it works great!!!!!.....Never loaded the Proteus stuff though.I Bought the Korg (http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=443) Legacy collection.I bought the first version that came with the ms 20 replica mini controller for $499 and I love it!It gave me the analog synth bug!!So then I went to Arturia and got the ARP 2600,Mimi-Moog,CS-80,and moog modular and they kick butt as well.Then.... i picked up some stuff from Native instruments like the Absynth and Pro-53 so I have about $1K in soft synths but I can do all the noises from old Rush to Jean Michel Jarre to Edgar Winter Group
the best part of the X-board is that it has enough knobs to program filter manipulation but not so many that it becomes an all day job to figure out what you programmed it to do 9 months earlier
Really!
So hows the finger? Back to playing?
Yes,with a lot of determination,I am playing as good(or bad) as I did before
Thank You for caring enough to ask 8)
In a Live playing situation, using the GNX4, guitar, microphone, Yamaha keyboard that has midi capability,,,,
WHAT THE HECK DO I DO WITH IT? WHAT PRACTICAL APPLICATION IS MIDI USED FOR. YOU GUYS KEEP TALKING WAY OVER THIS OLD MANS HEAD.
HOW AND WHAT DO I DO WITH MIDI AND VST'S OTHER THEN SCRATCH MY BALD HEAD??
MIKE
There's a bunch of midi files on the net. You can download entire songs and load the midi into a Pro Tracks, Cubase or other project. Once you select a midi file, you right click open with>> Cubase, Pro Tracks etc. When that file opens in the DAW program it will create multiple tracks of midi files. Those files are just DATA, not audio. So you have to assign each track a VST or DXi plugin to create the sound ie Paino, Bass, Drums etc.
Native Instruments released a stand alone Midi sequencer called BANDSTAND which does all this automatically and sounds are based on NI plugins IIRC. This program also has features for effects and an option to output tracks as wav or mp3's. Pretty cool.
Ok, so maybe they will...LoL :P
golf.......................yep, we got it!
chips hot! ummmm not really. just an old dude!
hahaha
i still don't see a live performance useage....
you guys use it for recording then incorporating those recordings into a live venue??? kinda like building soundtracks to play with?
golf.......................yep, we got it!
chips hot! ummmm not really. just an old dude!
hahaha
i still don't see a live performance useage....
you guys use it for recording then incorporating those recordings into a live venue??? kinda like building soundtracks to play with?
I have a good friend that plays lead guitar GREAT!!! and I would like to get with him and do the rhythm parts but getting a band together is pita.We had a bassist that was a snob so we showed him the door.We had a drummer but he realized that he didn't really have the time.NOW we have a bassist but he lives south of Chicago :shock: If i play the drums and split the singing duties then we can make it work
or........................
I pre record the drum parts using the GNX4 and that will allow us to not only play to the drum tracks but will free me up to play rhythm and we'll sound better and enjoy it more.
I have seen Buckethead twice and he never needed a back up band .He played to pre-recorded tracks and it fit better than imagined.I have also seen open mic night where a couple of guys would go on stage and do the same 8)
Wow! Don't them free ranging kernals make putting a btch??
From my pov midi can go one of two ways.. Make making music more complicated (as if a gnx4 doesn't) or more enjoyable (like a gnx4 does) ... But seeing as these obamanomics ain't doing a thing for me... midi is a way off, before I delve into it...
Not to go in a different direction .. but I will, cuz that is what I do... I kinda like them gibson dark fires. might kinda fit the bill for a guy like me, playing with himself in a back room. Or possibly some one who came out of the closet and got himself in a cover band. ,... Then I remember I can't afford new strings, hoping this set last till 2012
Although you could use midi in a live situation, and many of the big bands do to snyc up their backing tracks, guitar presets and light effects (so I read), my goal is less ambitious. There are tens of thousands of midi files free on the internet, some better than others. I have downloaded 1000's of midi files over the years and use them primarily as backing tracks to practice along with when I play guitar or bass. With midi files, it is very easy to transpose a song and/or change the tempo without affecting the sound quality, because MIDI is just data, and not actual audio. So, when I first learn a song, I can slow down a song to half speed, or even less, and the sound quality of the \"backing track\" does not suffer any loss in sound quality. The MIDI data gets sent out per tempo selected and my Yamaha keyboard plays the notes perfectly.
More recently, we have been learning new songs with drum beats that my GNX4 and other drum machines do not have. Our drummer is not always available for practice, and for sure he can't come to my house every time I want to practice a song. However, I do have midi files of those songs that someone has already taken the time to program and it is really easy just to play along with a good drum track, true to the original recording with the proper starts, stops, fills, etc.... That works better for me than playing along with a drum machine with a looping one measure drum beat which never changes. I could play along with the original recording, but sometimes you need to drop your instrument from the mix (in my case, bass guitar) to make sure you are playing it correctly by yourself. I have found that when I practice just with the original recording, sometimes I really don't have the song down as well as I thought I did. When I mute my instrument channel on a midi file for practice, then I know for sure if I can play the song or need more work.
Also, the thing with MIDI is that most of the standard sounds that come with the computer's standard midi synth are not all that stellar - escpecially the guitar sounds. My Yamaha keyboard is better than my computer's sound card synth, but I am looking to kick up the quality of the music a notch by using some of the new soft synth sounds that I have been reading about. When I get all this stuff figured out, it will help me to make better backing tracks to practice with. At least, that's my goal. I'd love to add keyboards via MIDI to some of the songs we do live, but I doubt that will work with this band. However, I might be able to track in some keyboards at home after we lay down our live tracks. Since I don't play keyboards myself, I can program a keyboard midi track in my own time and make it match perfect with the song. Or, track in other sounds such as strings, brass, horns, etc....
Guitar3456, I downloaded the Proteus LE file and hope to install it sometime this week if I get the time. Thanks for that link. I already have 4 midi keyboards and was really just looking for sounds/soft synths at this point. Hope to get the VST plugins figured out soon. Worked out my problem with the MIDI recording delay I had the other day. So now I'm looking forward to learning how to setup the VST instrument tracks.
In practical audio terms of midi usage yes, but Midi can allow so many other aspects within preset/parameter changes, controlling other devices like lighting etc.
Midi in terms of a DAW sequencing program (Digital Audio Workstation) is more simplified in that it defines a musical note, velocity, and duration. VST's and DXi's are interfacing synths that you assign to a track ie piano, drums, saxophone, violins (these are aka voices).
You can use this to create audio tracks that are playable on most devices or export to cd, dvd, and other mediums. Essentially when it comes to VST and soft synth programs the usage is primarily to convert the data of midi to audio.
good looking GUI they usually put time in effort into the software,though that is not an absolute.
www.home.no/gunnare/ is the home of the minimouge va.It is a fantastic knock off of the Minimoog and is as close as you can get without copyright
infringement.
www.meldaproduction.com has the Mdrummer small drum sampler.It is not fully functional as the pay version but for a freebie it is worth
checking out.It does take quite awhile to download because it downloads pretty much at dial up speeds(I have high speed Internet)so be prepared for that.
www.native-instruments.com has the free fully functional Kore Player and a free compilation pack.If you get it you have to double click every time to change sounds and/or instruments.
It took me awhile to figure that out.
As for midi keyboard controllers,I believe M-Audio has the widest variety of budget to mid+ level products.
Later.
I am wondering if the GNX4 interface is giving me the problem of having no VST sounds. The GNX4 is set as my default audio sound device. At the moment, I can set the track output in Cubase to GM midi synth and hear the output on my PA speakers (via the GNX4 output). If I change the output in Cubase to GNX4 Midi Output, I hear the external keyboard play the sounds. However, I cannot get any sound directly from my computer speakers. If I shut off my GNX4 and restart Cubase, I can get the midi files to play through my computer speakers, but then I have no midi input for recording. Also, the VST track still makes no sound whether or not the GNX4 is turned on.
I plan on starting all over with my setup of both the GNX4 and Cubase to see if I can get my VST plugins to play any sounds when I play my keyboard. These VST instrument tracks and plugins are new to me, and I'm probably just missing something simple to route the VST output correctly. If anyone has an idea of how to get the GNX4 to work nice with Cubase LE 4 and the VST plugins, I'm all ears. My midi data is being sent to and received/recorded in my VST track from my external keyboard, but I just cannot hear any VST sound(s). Hope to work past this problem as I have started a small collection of VST plugins to play around with once I get this stuff figured out.
Kvr is a good site.There is no \"real\" mastering freeware but a good good supply of soft synths and effects,mixing and processing wise.
Any of the pay for stuff you will find a better price at Sweetwater,Guitar Center,etc.
The nice thing about freeware is that it gives you a chance to learn how to use different software before shelling out the bucks for the better quality consumerware.
How's your Strat coming along?
Glad you got things working gtaus because I haven't clue one about Cubase so I couldn't have helped you there.
Definitely try the minimouge.you won't be disappointed.
Later.
1. Can anyone recommend free, or commercial, soft synths that have voices that match up with the GM voice list? I am trying to make some higher quality backing tracks from midi files I download off the internet, which are GM files, and it would sure make things faster if I used a soft synth that had voices numbered the same as the GM voice order.
2. I have discovered that if I try to play a VST track and regular midi tracks via the PC soundcard's midi synth, that the tracks do not sync up despite the notes on the tracks being right where they should be and everything looks aligned correctly. If anyone knows why the tracks don't snyc up correctly, please explain. I thought it was a VST latency issue with my ASIO driver, since the latency was at 325 ms, but I upgraded to ASIO4ALL which dropped my latency to 14 ms and I still have the same problem with VST tracks and midi tracks not playing in sync. I asked this same question on the Steinberg forum about Cubase LE 4, and the response I got was that everyone has problems syncing up VST tracks with regular midi tracks. They recommened I use all midi tracks played through the sound card's GM sounds, or use all VST tracks. It seems that mixing the two types of tracks causes problems. So, I'd like to go all VST tracks replacing my GM midi tracks, which leads me back to my first question...
Just wanted to end by saying that I really like the sounds of some of these VST voices. The quality of these VST voices really takes the sound of these midi files to another level. It sure doesn't sound like your typical computer soundcard midi synth anymore. I can see future projects with more VST tracks laying down the background sounds. Thanks for any help.
I've always found the Edirol (Roland) Virtual Sound Canvas to be useful. You can usually find it for under $100. I believe it still comes bundled with Band-in-a-Box, if you would want to give that product a try.
NI Bandstand also works, but it is discontinued. You might be able to eBay a copy of it, or it is available from the more nefarious sources. [ARRRGH - step aboard matey.]
Depending upon your system, you might take at look at the various Soundfont options that are available.