Well Ive only been using my PA for a few days I cant see myself ever plugging my combo in ever again...honestly I agree with gnxjammer 100%. I love the tones I can get with the PA. I play my guitar a lot more than I did before I had the PA.... I can not see myself ever jamming with a little combo ever again. :?
I think I will go to Guitar Center and educate myself on 15\" speakers too, considering what you said about them vs 12\" speakers. I currently have 3 12\" speakers. 2 that came with the PA and one seperate for floor monitor. If it sounds as good as you say, then I will trade all 3 speakers in and maybe that combo too, for some 15\" speakers.
But I have to investigate the difference in clarity, etc.
Thanks everyone. This is a a really good forum. One of the best.
Then as the dream becomes clouded by over-stimulation, the life becomes numb and without purpose...save to merely exist. Thus a new society emerges as a Race of Comatose Zombies of the over-stimulated Digitech Audio Utopia. This enevitability exists through natural vibrations like a never-ending cycle...where suicide is not even an option, and death comes only to those that can imagine beyond the Realm of Desolance and Stimuli and awaken to sweet death...but to only be born once again. The cycle of vibrant life once again continues tormenting endlessly through the reverberations of time.
This of course is the condensed version of an endless reverberating dream, only....
WE HERE AT DIGITECH SET THE CYCLE RATE.... \"THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR COMPUTER.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ADJUST THE PICTURE, WE ARE NOW CONTROLLING THE TRANSMISSION.
WE CONTROL THE HORIZONTAL AND VERTICAL. WE CAN DELUGE YOU WITH A THOUSAND BYTES OR
EXPAND ONE SINGLE TONE TO CRYSTAL CLARITY. WE CAN SHAPE YOUR VISION TO ANYTHING OUR
IMAGINATION CAN CONCEIVE. WE WILL CONTROL ALL THAT YOU SEE AND HEAR.\"
YOU ARE ABOUT TO EXPERIENCE THE AWE AND MYSTERY WHICH REACHES
>FROM THE DEEPEST INNER MIND TO THE WORLD OF \"DIGITECH.\" Bru-haha haaaaaaaah
...I think I will go to Guitar Center and educate myself on 15\" speakers too, considering what you said about them vs 12\" speakers. I currently have 3 12\" speakers. 2 that came with the PA and one seperate for floor monitor. If it sounds as good as you say, then I will trade all 3 speakers in and maybe that combo too, for some 15\" speakers....
I thought you got the PA system with the 15\" speakers? My first PA had 12\" speakers, which I thought were pretty good, but later I upgraded to 15\" speakers and immediately noticed the increased ability to handle the lower frequencies. The bass started thumping... The speakers were different brands, but I think that the bigger speakers were just able to pump out the bass better. The clarity of the larger speakers was just as clear as the smaller 12\" speakers. Actually, better because they were no longer distorting with bass at high volumes. Plus, the larger speakers had a higher wattage rating and in general were just better built.
There were 2 systems Phonic carried. One was the 620 plus with 100w/ch, single stereo eq, and a pair of 12's. The other version ( in my previous MF link) was the 740plus that is 220 w/ch, came with 15's and dual ch eq's. The 740 plus was $379, the 620 plus is $299. Both are stereo, and the lighter weight of the 12's may be more of what the OP was looking for. IDK.
The power spec of the 740 obviously required 15's for that system's handling capacity.
Weight and portability are both reasons I went with powered Peavey SP15-NEO's.
270w each, and I can pick both of them up at the same time. They're big, but they're light. I also chose to use a small 8 channel mixer so I could run a mic, keyboard, etc through them, but it's also light as a feather. Add a small gym bag for cables and your sound reinforcement is ultra light and ultra portable. The cabs for the 15's are a bit on the large side, but they're not heavy at all.
I'm amazed at how light these speakers are considering I had tried the Behringer powered 412's first, and those things weighed a metric fook-ton. The Tapco's were pretty light and portable, but didn't sound as good as the Peavey's.
As for power > volume, I usually run the Peavey's at 50%, main channel on the mixer at 30%, and the volume on my guitar channel at 30%. That's more than enough for a live rehearsal, and leaves plenty of room for kickin it up a few more notches for live performances. I tried bumping it up to 80%, 40%, 40%, and it hurt my ears. This setup can get LOUD.
The only draw back to this setup compared to the Phonic is cost. The SP15-NEO/Alesis mixer setup is about double that of the Phonic.
...I think im going to buy a rythm machine now! The DR 880 looks ideal....
I don't know much about the DR 880 other than what I read on the website. There are other options that you might also want to consider before your purchase, if you haven't already.
The GNX4 itself has a good programmable drum machine. You have about 100 drum patterns built into the machine. Granted, I only use a handful of those patterns myself, but the power of the GNX4 drum machine is that it is programmable. You can make your own patterns in PTP and save them to CF card as midi files. You don't have to limit yourself to just one or two bar repeating patterns either. If you take the time to learn how to program electronic drums in your DAW software, you can really do lots of great stuff with your recordings. Also, most drum machines/rhythm machines need a way to \"humanize\" the drums or it will sound like a drum machine on your future recordings. So learning how to program drums and how to program in a \"human\" feel is a great skill to learn.
Almost all my GM midi keyboards have built in rhythm machines which I have used from time to time. You could get a GM keyboard for probably less than $200, I did. Then, you would also have another instrument for your growing band.
I bought a Zoom HD16CD for less than $600. It has hundreds of rhythm patterns + bass built into the unit. You can program additional rhythm patterns + bass yourself and store them on the machine. Plus, it records up to 8 tracks simultaneously and works with 16 tracks on the unit itself. If you need more, it comes with Cubase LE 4.0 which, IIRC, has up to 48 tracks. So, for $100 more than the DR 880, you get a 16 track recorder with a decent programmable rhythm machine.
There are tens of thousands of midi files available on the internet for free. That's great for me when I want to learn a specific song, but it does require you to have a way to play the midi files. I use my GM keyboard.
Guitar Pro 5 is a great piece of software and there are also thousands of songs available for free on the internet. You can play back the file in audio format or as midi files.
I have used Band-in-a-Box software for years to quickly make up songs. You just choose your rhythm and enter in the chords onscreen. Takes about 5 minutes to enter a song for the basics. Also, lots of just rhythm patterns that you might want to use. I haven't purchased an upgrade in a number of years, so I don't know what the current features list is. But I often play around with my BIAB as my software rhythm machine. It gets high ratings for Jazz type music more than heavy Rock n' Roll. Still, lots of good rhythm patterns in there for me.
I have a friend who uses Fruity Loops, which he likes. Don't know much about it personally. But have heard good things about it.
I have download thousands of backing tracks and karaoke files from the internet. They are great for learning specific songs. Sometimes just listening to the music without the vocals helps me to learn the instrument part better. Also, if you are going to sign the song yourself, it works great to throw on a karaoke file and see if the song fits your vocal range/key or if you need to change key.
And, of course, you can always jam along with the original recordings. That's mainly what I do these days. I use a freeware practice software called Best Practice. http://www.xs4all.nl/~mp2004/bp/ It works with CD, wav, and mp3 files. It can slow down a song without changing pitch, or you can change the pitch (key) of the song, and you can also set loop points so you can loop that guitar solo over and over again. When I am learning a new song for the band, I usually just get the original artist recording, load it up in Best Practice, and play along at a slower speed and work my way up to performance tempo. One feature I really like is the ability to change key and resave the file. That way, if my band plays the song in a different key than the original, I just record the song in our key and save it on my computer or CF card on the GNX4. From that point on, I just play the modified file in our key.
Anyway, I just wanted to throw out some other ideas that you might want to consider in addition to the DR 880. Different machines, software, or approaches work for different people. I have used lots of different approaches myself, but lately, while in a cover band, I just use Best Practice with original recordings to learn my part.
Keep us updated on your growing system. I always like to hear what other people are buying. It's just my way of deG.A.S.ing myself without having to empty my wallet. Also, if you buy a new piece of gear, share a quick review with us on the General Discussion board. Some of the best gear I have purchased has been because someone else told me that they liked it. Also, sometimes I read a review that helps me not to make a specific purchase. Take care.
Hmmm.... I was going to get the 15inch Behr power monitors everyone talks about but got a Marshall half stack. MGDfx250 or something like that from the 90's I think. It gives me the volume, but hiss at church due to lighting... one row of 3 lights on a dimmer switch cause bad hiss when lights are turned on. Arggg...
But this 740 sys with the 15's sounds great! How loud is it? My little Marshall blows your ears off at 6 or so. and it sounds ok, but muddy sometimes. and the low end with my Les Paul does a vibrate/hummy thingie... I think I need to cut my bass settings down on the GNX4. But overall I am happy with it.
Is the 740 nice and quiet? what about my light situation, you think the 740 sys would be more \"tweekable\" to help that. And my FAT FAT FAT Les Paul low end hummy problem?? Thanks for the info.
If I get the 740 15inch sys later I will have to sell my Fender Princeton Stereo Chorus or Crate GLX120 or the Marshall....
I got the 12's and I cant turn it all the way up. About half way I can see the neighbor across the street looking over at my house lol....so I know whats gong on....she can HEAR me shredding!
I got the presets on the GNX4 all down to volume level 10 too so when I put my headphones on I don't blow my brains out.
But yea, it will definitely be loud enough for church. I bought an extra floor monitor so I got a total of 3 speakers. 2 in the air on stands and one on the floor on the other side of the room that I jam in.
I have my unit turned down alot too. Like for example, I use channel one strip on the PA for my guitar and the volume switches for channel 1 strip are both on 2. The main vol on the PA is on 3. Plus my presets on the GNX4 are on 10. So all in all I got a WHOLE lot of volume to crank, but I cant I need to consider my neighbors and their sanity, lol. Plus I practice in a regular sized bedroom that is in the front of the house. My brother in law told me when he takes his dog for a walk and comes past my house he can hear it like he is in the room with me, lol....i dont know if that is actually true but thats what he says.
I had a Marshall too, I like Marshall a lot, but I will never go back to an amp. This PA is far better than any amp can ever be. Versatility is the word!
Cool. Sounds like u got plenty room. Our main sanctuary seats 500 most times we have. 300_400 Sun morn. I would use the 740 sys for stage monitor. Better sound to house sys. And rehearsals. Also record w\\the guys. We are fortunate to have. Various flavors. Black gospel drummer. White. Rock drummer from 70,s club days. Self taught bass who likes almost everything. Mexican on percussion has many talents. Country girl on keys. Hahaha. And me. X zep DT guys. And pastor likes whammy dist and the whole shebang. He sings used to do clubs in Chicago. What freedom we have its great.
I got the 12's and I cant turn it all the way up. About half way I can see the neighbor across the street looking over at my house lol....so I know whats gong on....she can HEAR me shredding!
I got the presets on the GNX4 all down to volume level 10 too so when I put my headphones on I don't blow my brains out.
But yea, it will definitely be loud enough for church. I bought an extra floor monitor so I got a total of 3 speakers. 2 in the air on stands and one on the floor on the other side of the room that I jam in.
I have my unit turned down alot too. Like for example, I use channel one strip on the PA for my guitar and the volume switches for channel 1 strip are both on 2. The main vol on the PA is on 3. Plus my presets on the GNX4 are on 10. So all in all I got a WHOLE lot of volume to crank, but I cant I need to consider my neighbors and their sanity, lol. Plus I practice in a regular sized bedroom that is in the front of the house. My brother in law told me when he takes his dog for a walk and comes past my house he can hear it like he is in the room with me, lol....i dont know if that is actually true but thats what he says.
I had a Marshall too, I like Marshall a lot, but I will never go back to an amp. This PA is far better than any amp can ever be. Versatility is the word!
Never say never! 5 years ago I had thwe same opinion. Now I play a Mesa 5:50 live in Worship Service Love it!! So be ware
Our youth plays behr 2x12 combos. Sounds ok, great for price. One has tube bergarr ?sp? 333. Sounds very nice. I am looking into H&K switchblade maybe next year.
Comments
I think I will go to Guitar Center and educate myself on 15\" speakers too, considering what you said about them vs 12\" speakers. I currently have 3 12\" speakers. 2 that came with the PA and one seperate for floor monitor. If it sounds as good as you say, then I will trade all 3 speakers in and maybe that combo too, for some 15\" speakers.
But I have to investigate the difference in clarity, etc.
Thanks everyone. This is a a really good forum. One of the best.
This of course is the condensed version of an endless reverberating dream, only....
WE HERE AT DIGITECH SET THE CYCLE RATE.... \"THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR COMPUTER.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ADJUST THE PICTURE, WE ARE NOW CONTROLLING THE TRANSMISSION.
WE CONTROL THE HORIZONTAL AND VERTICAL. WE CAN DELUGE YOU WITH A THOUSAND BYTES OR
EXPAND ONE SINGLE TONE TO CRYSTAL CLARITY. WE CAN SHAPE YOUR VISION TO ANYTHING OUR
IMAGINATION CAN CONCEIVE. WE WILL CONTROL ALL THAT YOU SEE AND HEAR.\"
YOU ARE ABOUT TO EXPERIENCE THE AWE AND MYSTERY WHICH REACHES
>FROM THE DEEPEST INNER MIND TO THE WORLD OF \"DIGITECH.\" Bru-haha haaaaaaaah
I thought you got the PA system with the 15\" speakers? My first PA had 12\" speakers, which I thought were pretty good, but later I upgraded to 15\" speakers and immediately noticed the increased ability to handle the lower frequencies. The bass started thumping... The speakers were different brands, but I think that the bigger speakers were just able to pump out the bass better. The clarity of the larger speakers was just as clear as the smaller 12\" speakers. Actually, better because they were no longer distorting with bass at high volumes. Plus, the larger speakers had a higher wattage rating and in general were just better built.
The power spec of the 740 obviously required 15's for that system's handling capacity.
270w each, and I can pick both of them up at the same time. They're big, but they're light. I also chose to use a small 8 channel mixer so I could run a mic, keyboard, etc through them, but it's also light as a feather. Add a small gym bag for cables and your sound reinforcement is ultra light and ultra portable. The cabs for the 15's are a bit on the large side, but they're not heavy at all.
I'm amazed at how light these speakers are considering I had tried the Behringer powered 412's first, and those things weighed a metric fook-ton. The Tapco's were pretty light and portable, but didn't sound as good as the Peavey's.
As for power > volume, I usually run the Peavey's at 50%, main channel on the mixer at 30%, and the volume on my guitar channel at 30%. That's more than enough for a live rehearsal, and leaves plenty of room for kickin it up a few more notches for live performances. I tried bumping it up to 80%, 40%, 40%, and it hurt my ears. This setup can get LOUD.
The only draw back to this setup compared to the Phonic is cost. The SP15-NEO/Alesis mixer setup is about double that of the Phonic.
Anyways...I ramble.
It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. :?
Now that I have my gnx4 and a nice sounding PA........I think im going to buy a rythm machine now!
The DR 880 looks ideal. :idea:
Might check the package online with your invoice and make sure GC didn't pull a fast one on you! Or accidentally!
I don't know much about the DR 880 other than what I read on the website. There are other options that you might also want to consider before your purchase, if you haven't already.
The GNX4 itself has a good programmable drum machine. You have about 100 drum patterns built into the machine. Granted, I only use a handful of those patterns myself, but the power of the GNX4 drum machine is that it is programmable. You can make your own patterns in PTP and save them to CF card as midi files. You don't have to limit yourself to just one or two bar repeating patterns either. If you take the time to learn how to program electronic drums in your DAW software, you can really do lots of great stuff with your recordings. Also, most drum machines/rhythm machines need a way to \"humanize\" the drums or it will sound like a drum machine on your future recordings. So learning how to program drums and how to program in a \"human\" feel is a great skill to learn.
Almost all my GM midi keyboards have built in rhythm machines which I have used from time to time. You could get a GM keyboard for probably less than $200, I did. Then, you would also have another instrument for your growing band.
I bought a Zoom HD16CD for less than $600. It has hundreds of rhythm patterns + bass built into the unit. You can program additional rhythm patterns + bass yourself and store them on the machine. Plus, it records up to 8 tracks simultaneously and works with 16 tracks on the unit itself. If you need more, it comes with Cubase LE 4.0 which, IIRC, has up to 48 tracks. So, for $100 more than the DR 880, you get a 16 track recorder with a decent programmable rhythm machine.
There are tens of thousands of midi files available on the internet for free. That's great for me when I want to learn a specific song, but it does require you to have a way to play the midi files. I use my GM keyboard.
Guitar Pro 5 is a great piece of software and there are also thousands of songs available for free on the internet. You can play back the file in audio format or as midi files.
I have used Band-in-a-Box software for years to quickly make up songs. You just choose your rhythm and enter in the chords onscreen. Takes about 5 minutes to enter a song for the basics. Also, lots of just rhythm patterns that you might want to use. I haven't purchased an upgrade in a number of years, so I don't know what the current features list is. But I often play around with my BIAB as my software rhythm machine. It gets high ratings for Jazz type music more than heavy Rock n' Roll. Still, lots of good rhythm patterns in there for me.
I have a friend who uses Fruity Loops, which he likes. Don't know much about it personally. But have heard good things about it.
I have download thousands of backing tracks and karaoke files from the internet. They are great for learning specific songs. Sometimes just listening to the music without the vocals helps me to learn the instrument part better. Also, if you are going to sign the song yourself, it works great to throw on a karaoke file and see if the song fits your vocal range/key or if you need to change key.
And, of course, you can always jam along with the original recordings. That's mainly what I do these days. I use a freeware practice software called Best Practice. http://www.xs4all.nl/~mp2004/bp/ It works with CD, wav, and mp3 files. It can slow down a song without changing pitch, or you can change the pitch (key) of the song, and you can also set loop points so you can loop that guitar solo over and over again. When I am learning a new song for the band, I usually just get the original artist recording, load it up in Best Practice, and play along at a slower speed and work my way up to performance tempo. One feature I really like is the ability to change key and resave the file. That way, if my band plays the song in a different key than the original, I just record the song in our key and save it on my computer or CF card on the GNX4. From that point on, I just play the modified file in our key.
Anyway, I just wanted to throw out some other ideas that you might want to consider in addition to the DR 880. Different machines, software, or approaches work for different people. I have used lots of different approaches myself, but lately, while in a cover band, I just use Best Practice with original recordings to learn my part.
Keep us updated on your growing system. I always like to hear what other people are buying. It's just my way of deG.A.S.ing myself without having to empty my wallet. Also, if you buy a new piece of gear, share a quick review with us on the General Discussion board. Some of the best gear I have purchased has been because someone else told me that they liked it. Also, sometimes I read a review that helps me not to make a specific purchase. Take care.
I see what they did at GC.
The 740 plus they have comes with S12's
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Phonic-Powerpod-740-Plus---S712-PA-Package-764637-i1395802.gc
At Musicians Friend, the package comes with S15's and a pair of speaker stands:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Phonic-Powerpod-740-Plus-S715-PA-Package?sku=630489
If you look here, GC should be able to give you a price match since Musicians friend is GC.
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Phonic-Powerpod-740-Plus-S712-PA-Package?sku=630488
Looks like they owe you $30
Ok!
Thanks for doing the research to point that out to me man. I will ask GC about this.
But this 740 sys with the 15's sounds great! How loud is it? My little Marshall blows your ears off at 6 or so. and it sounds ok, but muddy sometimes. and the low end with my Les Paul does a vibrate/hummy thingie... I think I need to cut my bass settings down on the GNX4. But overall I am happy with it.
Is the 740 nice and quiet? what about my light situation, you think the 740 sys would be more \"tweekable\" to help that. And my FAT FAT FAT Les Paul low end hummy problem?? Thanks for the info.
If I get the 740 15inch sys later I will have to sell my Fender Princeton Stereo Chorus or Crate GLX120 or the Marshall....
I think I would sell the Fender.
I got the 12's and I cant turn it all the way up. About half way I can see the neighbor across the street looking over at my house lol....so I know whats gong on....she can HEAR me shredding!
I got the presets on the GNX4 all down to volume level 10 too so when I put my headphones on I don't blow my brains out.
But yea, it will definitely be loud enough for church. I bought an extra floor monitor so I got a total of 3 speakers. 2 in the air on stands and one on the floor on the other side of the room that I jam in.
I have my unit turned down alot too. Like for example, I use channel one strip on the PA for my guitar and the volume switches for channel 1 strip are both on 2. The main vol on the PA is on 3. Plus my presets on the GNX4 are on 10. So all in all I got a WHOLE lot of volume to crank, but I cant I need to consider my neighbors and their sanity, lol. Plus I practice in a regular sized bedroom that is in the front of the house. My brother in law told me when he takes his dog for a walk and comes past my house he can hear it like he is in the room with me, lol....i dont know if that is actually true but thats what he says.
I had a Marshall too, I like Marshall a lot, but I will never go back to an amp. This PA is far better than any amp can ever be. Versatility is the word!
Never say never! 5 years ago I had thwe same opinion. Now I play a Mesa 5:50 live in Worship Service Love it!! So be ware