Mixer Boards, 24 v. 32 channels?
We are planning on upgrading our band's equipment and the next thing I am looking at is our mixer. Currently I have a Behringer PMH880S all-in-one powered mixer with 400 watts/side. It has 8 XLR inputs (12 channel) which we max out even running a separate sub mixer for the drum kit. I have had nothing but good luck with the Behringer unit, but we have outgrown it.
I am looking at 24 channel mixers (16 XLR inputs) http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-SX2442FX-Eurodesk-Mixer?sku=638005 and 32 channel mixers (24 XLR inputs) http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-SX3242FX-Eurodesk-Mixer?sku=638006. Both those boards are highly rated and I have had good luck with Behringer in the past.
I'm asking for anyone's opinion as to how much mixer we need (or would want) for a 4 piece band. We often set up additional mics for guest singers/performers and would like to bring on keyboards and another vocalist if possible. Our plan is to have all the drums mic'd through the main board, also. We are going to a separate mixer out front controlled by a sound guy for the shows. I'm sure we could get by with the 24 channel mixer, but if I'm going to spend that much money anyway, I'm wondering if I should just get the 32 channel board for the little extra. I'll probably take advantage of the MF credit card and spread the pain out over 12 months, so a little larger bill will not hurt as much each month.
Some of the other local bands around here have boards with 12 XLR channels, so they must have 16 channel boards, my guess. However, the Behringer boards are alot less expensive and have many more features than \"name brand\" boards such as Yamaha, Mackie, Peavey, etc.... So I can buy alot more channels for still less money than the more expensive name brand boards. At least, that's what I'm thinking. If anyone has some practical advice on mixer boards, I'm all ears. I'm not limiting my sights to Behringer products either. If someone else has a good suggestion, I'm more than willing to check out other boards. It's just that these Behringer boards are highly rated and at a good price point for our band. Thanks for any comments.
I am looking at 24 channel mixers (16 XLR inputs) http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-SX2442FX-Eurodesk-Mixer?sku=638005 and 32 channel mixers (24 XLR inputs) http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-SX3242FX-Eurodesk-Mixer?sku=638006. Both those boards are highly rated and I have had good luck with Behringer in the past.
I'm asking for anyone's opinion as to how much mixer we need (or would want) for a 4 piece band. We often set up additional mics for guest singers/performers and would like to bring on keyboards and another vocalist if possible. Our plan is to have all the drums mic'd through the main board, also. We are going to a separate mixer out front controlled by a sound guy for the shows. I'm sure we could get by with the 24 channel mixer, but if I'm going to spend that much money anyway, I'm wondering if I should just get the 32 channel board for the little extra. I'll probably take advantage of the MF credit card and spread the pain out over 12 months, so a little larger bill will not hurt as much each month.
Some of the other local bands around here have boards with 12 XLR channels, so they must have 16 channel boards, my guess. However, the Behringer boards are alot less expensive and have many more features than \"name brand\" boards such as Yamaha, Mackie, Peavey, etc.... So I can buy alot more channels for still less money than the more expensive name brand boards. At least, that's what I'm thinking. If anyone has some practical advice on mixer boards, I'm all ears. I'm not limiting my sights to Behringer products either. If someone else has a good suggestion, I'm more than willing to check out other boards. It's just that these Behringer boards are highly rated and at a good price point for our band. Thanks for any comments.
Comments
I did the following. If I needed 16 channels according to their specs I got a 24. If I needed 24 channels according to their specs I got a 32. 80% of the time I needed extra channels. If you can afford it, go for one size bigger. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Although I know the B Products are hard to beat price wise, I still refuse to buy them on moral issues. Just google patent infringements behringer.
I've heard that Behringer is being sued by others on patents. Seems that Behringer is providing the same quality electronics as Mackie and others but at a much lower cost. As long as I'm buying the product legally, I don't have any moral problems with the purchase. I used to be a contract administrator for the government. I've seen companies sue each other all the time for all kinds of reasons. Some valid, some not. Some win, some lose. That is their fight, not mine. But I appreciate your moral stance even if I don't feel the same. Thanks again for your comments.
The 3242 should serve your purpose and allow expansion. The efx processors are pretty good and based off their popular rack units.
For a little more you could try this and be able to connect to a laptop and record your shows if you ever wanted to do video and dub the audio track of the FOH rather than from a camcorder:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/-ZED24-Mixer?sku=630351
For this you would need an efx processor, but it gives you more options of efx units to work with and less to worry about in an all one if the fx go down. EQ's preamps, controls, sliders, jacks are obviously superior. This is Allen Heath's attempt at mass production competition.
Then there is Yam:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-MG2414FX-24Input-14-Bus-Mixer-with-DSP-Effects?sku=630055
Carvin:
https://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=C2444U
Dual Efx, USB, Spdif options on board
If I want to record 2 channel stereo, I'll just jack some patch cables from the mixer to my GNX4. That's what I have been doing for over a year now anyway at our gigs. The recordings on the GNX4 are great, although I record in mono because our live mix is mono. Problem is, of course, that the recordings are only demo quality at best in the sense that you cannot go back and work individual tracks as everything is already mixed down to one mono track. My idea of the FP-10 is to capture everything live on each individual channel and take it back to the home studio for remix and final mix down to a stereo pair.
So the USB recording off these boards has not appealed to me, unless you know if you can actually record multiple channels (8+) at once. The only specs I have ever seen are stereo recording mix.
It's really great to see how much you can buy these days without getting a second mortgage on the house. We live in good times in that respect.
As far as the number of channels, think 8 for drums, 2 for guitar, 1 for bass, 2 for alternate percussion, and 5 for vocals. We also run a separate stereo channel for outboard effects processor and for an MP3 player. That's 18 XLRs and 4 line-ins.
Not sure how many you have but that's what we need.
Even so, I'm pretty happy with it - as long as you keep the on-board-effects use to a minimum...
What I really need is one of those 72-ch desk layouts, so I can impress chix with \"all those knobs!!!\" :twisted:
Thanks for the info. I don't know what Behringer board model you have, but I thought that the SX3242FX was a newer model. I watched a 2 hour video review of the board from dancetech.com http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6579044494879093691 dated Nov 2008. The reviewer claims that the new board is much better than previous Behringer boards and rates it 10/10. He also states that the effects on this board are better than previous models. All of which made me take another look at this particular model. Having said that, according to the reviewer, you don't have to use the built in effects as you can just run outboard processors or any combination of effects you want of built in/outboard efffects. So, the board is not \"limited\" to the built in effects. I appreciate the head's up on the effects just the same. It doesn't matter if they give you 100 effects if they are noisy or just no good. But, the reviewer on the google video actually spoke rather highly of the effects built into this model and I believe he did mention that he had not been too impressed with previous models' built in effects.
I learned about the panning trick on assigning channels to the subgroups. Thought it was funny until I see that many other boards use the same technique. I suppose it amounts to the same thing but only takes 1 knob to assign a channel to a subgroup instead of two.
When I started adding up all the XLR inputs I could foresee for us right now, I could easily get over 16 channels with mic'ing the drums. That is why I'm interested in the 32 channel board with 24 XLR inputs. If we are going to control everything through a sound guy out front, we might as well give him control over all the inputs.
I'm aware that the effects are parameter-fixed on this board. However, you also have an option of running outboard effects processors on this board so you can use any processor you want. Again, the video review I watched was rather positive on the built in effects of this board and compared them higher than in previous boards by Behringer. Still, he did mention the fact that the effects are parameter fixed and that he would prefer to have been able to play around with the effects to his taste, too.
From what I know about your chix situation, I don't know if even a 72 channel board would have enough knobs to impress the ladies in your life! I think you'd be better off just throwing $20's, $50's, or $100's around the house.
That said, I use the built in FX on my B 16-ch from time to time...if it isn't crucial what the settings are, they sound pretty good. Just don't jack up your FX level mix-in too much, or you'll get noise.
Chix. Jeez. I could walk into a club with $100's pasted all over my body and the only chix that'd be interested would be the ones who hadn't paid their bar tab yet. :?
Must be my breath. :roll:
Standards? OK, sue me. :roll:
I just got done purchasing a Yamaha 16 ch mixer for our PA http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/EnlargedImage/0,,CNTID%253D558911%2526CTID%253D,00.html and now I'm thinking we should have paid the extra and gone with a 24 after reading this. :roll: :shock: :oops:
BTW, we use outboard effects for all of the reasons above stated. Although, I do like the onboard effects with this board.
Shredd, I told you already to come down out of the hills and into the city. Plenty of hotties down here regardless of how many knobs you have.
JV
It may be overkill, but I am seriously considering the 32 channel board. Almost everyone I have talked to here on the forum and locally have told me to get the bigger board if we have the money ($399 for 24 channel v. $549 for 32 channels). One thing is certain, we have always used more channels than we ever have planned, and currently my 8 XLR channels are maxed out every show and that includes a submixer for the drums which takes 6 mics down to one channel on my main board. So I quickly did the math and eliminated the 16 channel boards (10 XLR inputs) from consideration for my band. We want to get all the drums mic'd on the main board w/o a submixer. Plus, like I said earlier, we would like to add keyboards and more mics for vocals.
Having stated my preferences, most of the local bands around here run 16 channel boards with 10-12 XLR inputs. It's probably more than enough for most live gigs. We have been running a 12 channel board (8 XLRs) for about a year now and nobody complains about our sound. We just want to add more flexibility to our setup. If I do get the Behringer 32 channel board, it's still less expensive than many other 16 channel boards by the more established \"name\" brand compainies. But I don't apologize for getting Behringer equipment, it's never let me down and I have always felt I got my moneys worth out of the equipment.
I asked the guys here for their opinion because I value their comments. A year ago, I would not have imagined that I (our band) would have needed anything more than my 12 channel (8 XLR) board. Our \"needs\" have increased as we have grown. Last year we played 43 paying gigs and we learned alot. I have saved the money to upgrade our equipment, so I hope my next purchase will be enough to carry the band forward for another few years. Being a working musician (on weekends), I also have to budget myself and try to get the best value for the dollar. Right now, Behringer seems to fit our criteria.
I had a 24 for years and always felt \"limited\"
Those subgroup assignments can be used as ch send control for an IEM rig, Subs, floor mon rig, other specific monitoring and even recording sends if desired.
I use http://froogle.google.com to look for item prices. 560 sounds about right for brand-new.
When I was still in a band, we used to rent boards b4 we bought and out of all of them I remember Yamaha seemed to be the best in sound and effects. We rented both the 24 and 32. I liked the 32 because of the fact we could single mike alot more of the drums which sounded alot better.
I have a friend who is bass player for a band and they just bought a new board and love it. Its a Yamaha-not sure what model but it does have 32 channels. Wait, let me see if I can catch him on his lunch break......
Yep, Its a Yamaha MG3214FX 32 Channel, 14 Bus Mixer w/ dual efx. They are a little pricy at $1100, but he said its a great mixer.
He said they ordered on zzounds.com
also check:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com//
http://www.samash.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/topCategories_-1_10052_10002
I did order an ATA style flight case for the mixer and that, I feel, should protect it from most damage. Also, like my brohter-in-law told me, at that price, you could afford to replace the mixer every 3 years and still come out way ahead considering the quaility of the boards is always improving and the cost is going down. You might be able to buy a high quality board that will last 10 years, but how much is it going to be worth even in a year or two? It's like computers, I buy the least expensive model I need at the moment because I know that 6 months from now I will be able to get something better and cheaper.
Anyway, you guys convinced me to go the 32 channel mixer route and I think the Behringer mixer will be just fine for our band for quite some time. In the end, the 32 channel board only cost me about $100 more than the 24 channel board. I think I made the right decision. Appreciate all your comments, suggestions, and feedback.
I was running sound at a company picnic, and was using the 32-channel Behringer. Our CEO came up to me, looked over the board and said, \"Yeah... that is a LOT of knobs....\"
It's funny because people don't realize that they all do the same thing on different channels. So they see a lot more than sound guys do.
But big mixers usually have sections that smaller ones don't - sub outs, sends, yada. My Behr 16-ch could be run by a chimp (hence my ownership
I have always been big on using a seperate mixer on drums to submix the mics/ triggers add fx ect. ect., then send a stereo pair to the main mix. Once the drums are dialed in its all controlled by two faders on the main console.
As far as mixers go I'm a big fan of Mackie myself. I have owned a ****load of mixers over the years and the mackies are by far the best Ive ever had dollar for dollar . They are worth the few extra dollars you have to pay for them and the quality really shows. the preamps are far superior to to some of the lesser priced brands. And thats really what you buy a mixer for...to make your music sound good.
Check out carvin as well, they make some really nice BIG mixers: 32 ch. 8 busses all the routing you could ever ask for, more $$$than the B brand but worth every penny!!!
What sold me on the Behringer unit was not only it's much lower price, but the reviews I watched on Google Video on the Behringer SX2442FX http://www.dancetech.com/display_video_details.cfm?dt_video_id=416 (part 1 of 2), which is the 24 channel version of the 32 channel mixer I ended up buying. Anyway, the reviews on the Behringer board are rated very high. And not just by happy users who felt that they really saved a lot of money. Others in the sound business are giving the new Behringer boards high grades.
I will admit that I don't know squat about mixers. We are currently using a Behringer PMH880S all-in-one powered mixer with 400 watts per side. It has held up for over a year on hard gigging without crapping out on us. I'd still be happy to use it for most of our gigs, except that we are maxing out the 8 XLR inputs at almost every show. Also, we want to bring the mixer out front and hire a sound man to run our sound for us for a number of reasons. I thought, and still think, that the Behringer SX3242FX mixer is probably the best value board for our band at this time. Besides, the purchase is made and unless the unit doesn't work when it arrives, I won't be looking at any more mixers. Thanks again to everyone for their input and opinions.
Speaking of which, I have talked to other guys who bought some real expensive \"name brand\" boards years ago that are trying to sell them for more than what I can buy a new mixer, with lots more features/effects/channels and a warranty than what they have to offer. Their boards may last another 10 years, but in reality, none of those used boards had the features of the newer mixers (Behringer or otherwise). So, like with computers, I am thinking about just getting the best deal I can at the moment because new boards are always coming out that are better and cheaper.
Now that I am gigging and getting paid for my work, I write off the equipment I use over time and if it lasts longer than I plan for, good. If not, I'll just get a different board when that time comes. I take care of my equipment, but if it wears out or breaks, it gets repaired or replaced and I don't lose sleep over it. I keep my good guitars and expensive amps at home anyway. They don't make it to our bar gigs. Just give me a decent guitar that stays in tune and I'm pretty much happy. Actually, I'm just pretty much happy just playing anyway. So it doesn't take much to keep me happy. Rock On!