Teaching
Since iv'e heard most of you guys on here play im sure youve at least tried to teach others how to play. What is the best way to teach? Ive taught two people how to play and consider both failures, and now i have a third person that wants to learn. Actually i think she just wants to be able to play without any sort of time put into learning. Any advice?
Comments
Lifes too short to waste the teacher and students time, unless you need the bread...
Then the appropriate response to Little Johnny's mom is...
\"Little Johnny has great potential, and is coming along quite nicely. That'll be another $150 for 4 more lessons. Thank You\"..
What that really means is this chick wants you to instill the ability to play guitar in her, without having to practice or learn all those letters and funny shapes.
In essence, she's hoping that your ability will \"rub off\" on her, that she'll somehow absorb it through proximity.
So...my advice is that unless she's uber-hott and you're sleeping with her (in which case, employ the response Tal mentioned), don't waste your time or hers.
Or at the very least, make dam sure she knows what she's getting into - that it will require practice and a desire to learn.
Otherwise, don't bother.
But if she's uber-hott and will sleep with me, I'll teach her til the cows come home. :twisted:
Blackibanez, if she keeps asking--what the he//, why not? She obviously wants something to be taught to her--
Also remember most people can strum one three cord song they have reached the pinicale of there musical goals and asperations. I have one student that was a failure to me. Because when he left he still couldn't play anything. But he had no real desire. Just seemed like a good idea at the time to him. So you only fail or succed as a teacher if your puple applys him self.....Just a thought!
nicely worded, thats what i do, i judge their first and second lesson the most heavily. if you havent practiced then i can tell and assume they have no drive. ive also been saying that any money they would spend on lessons just save up and let me help them pick a nice starter guitar, since most people just get the cheapest one they can find or worse, spend a ton of money on a real p.o.s. and have to learn on a guitar thats just hard to play, which is a big turn off to beginners.
And I also agree with 'binez - starting out with a POS git'r definitely puts a damper on the enthusiam. I recall starting on a POS and spending more time tuning (without success) than playing. :?
Man, I sound like an old crank even to myself. Maybe I need more sleep...
Oh yeah, by the way, since I am totally giving away my age, my first \"real\" electric guitar cost me $300. No big deal you might think. But at the time I was washing dishes in a restaurant for $1.10 an hour. I worked all summer and saved my money to get that guitar. The next summer the minimum wage went up and I got a better job. So I started taking real guitar lessons and paying for them out of my pocket. I am not saying that my way is the only way, or even the best way, but I sure did value both my time and my money I spent on lessons. I knew exactly how long and how hard I had to work to pay for each lesson. And I spent hours during the week on the guitar practicing for each upcoming lesson.
I'll quit now. I can't stand to even hear myself anymore....
Good luck with your teaching, we need more young inspired musicians to replace all us old dogs. Take care.
But I couldn't agree more with him on the point that git'r lessons shouldn't be free...\"kids\" these days get an awful lot handed to them, and getting things that way tends to make one take it's value for granted.
I still think that once the git'r bug bites, it doesn't make a difference. But if it hasn't, someone who's getting taught for nothing isn't going to place much value on the effort the teacher is putting in, or even the value of being able to play. :?
If I were teaching someone for free, I'd have to be sleeping with her. :twisted:
If I can give that gift to someboddy else free or not I'm sure going to help the best I can!
And yes I say the same thing get a good guitar a bad guitar will just discourage...
Oh also have them get a cheap recorder and record there practices so they can listen back and hear there progress. I always record first time sessions. So ten years later when there a rock star talking smack you can pull that old recording up that'll humble them... Later guys
Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 140
New postPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: Reply with quote:
Shes alright, shes not the hottest girl around or anything but i think shes ok.
Nice. Hope she dont read that...........She will be eternally gratefull....
:roll:
Anyway. think it is good to get some sort of grounding in the art of guitar.
Teach to get the basics..... Tell the student to splash out on a half decent guitar to learn on (alot of these starter packages I wouldnt poke the fire with....... I know some cant afford it but hey you cant play garbage either) and give them some sort of daily routine.....
Daily practice: 10 mins scales, 10 mins arppegios, 5 mins open chords, 30 mins favourite song learning etc. etc. etc...........think the most important thing teacher wise is, to know what you are talking about and secondly, to be enthusiastic.......and if you can play like Andy Summers come and teach me.
I've taught, many people. Everything from history and math, to guitar and piano. I've taught bright people, I've taught average people (most just need an extra push), I've taught people who are kinda slow (I feel most deserve an extra chance or three), and I've taught people with severe mental retardation (literally - you don't even know how bad). So here is the advice that I have to offer, and the system I have developed. Just like music - you have to play this by ear (as you yourself know), but this is the framework that never fails for me.
Let me say this: especially in US, no two students are the same. Each has individual needs and will respond accordingly to any specific teaching approach. As such, you have to tailor - there is no way around it. My presentation, when meeting a new student, generally consists of an interview. Once I tell the student a little about myself, what I know, what I can and cannot do, and a short playing demo (killer, if you know some tricks and you're dealing with beginner to intermediate):
* What do you listen to
* What do you want to play
* What can you play currently
* How do you want to get to where you're going
* How much time do you have to devote to getting there
* In what kinds of musical projects have you partaken before
Next, based on the feedback, I give my take on the situation. Hopefully this turns in to a two-way discussion. I'm willing to take on any student, and I will leave it up to the student to decide whether there is anything he/she can pick up from me.
Then, I'll start with technical questions:
* Have you had lessons before, and what format were they (private, group, etc)
* What have you learned from the lessons
* What do you know that you have researched on your own (important, because you may have to break down some misconceptions)
* How much theory do you know (be specific, such as: do you know chords? if yes - do you know the difference between major and minor? what is a 7th, what is a dominant? etc)
* How much experience have you had playing outside of learning - by now you'll usually know the answer
Finally, I suggest an approach. Here's what we'll do: I'll teach you [a] and [c]; if there's anything along the way you don't understand, ask and I will try to explain it. And, give me a list of songs you want to learn, if applicable.
If the student disagrees, see if you can find a common ground. You may completely leave out something he or she wants to learn, or he or she may misunderstand your terminology/jargon, and you may be on the same page just calling different things different names. If there are things the student wants to learn that you cannot offer - leave it alone, unless a week of research and practice will get you where you need to be.
Make sure everyone you teach knows how to tune guitars. I'm tired of hearing out-of-tune guitarists
Hope that helps.
Back in my younger more vulnerable days, I had this one particular girlfriend (yes shredd, a girlfriend
In those vulnerable days, I used to do a lot of the air guitar thing. It has subsided now, though it's still there, but back then it was bad.
So girl asked me, \"Why do you do that, you can't hear it, you don't have a guitar, you probably just making it up\"
We did an experiment. She borrowed her brother's guitar, and we taped her fingers to the back of mine, on the left hand. The seating arrangement was clumsy, though I certainly didn't complain :twisted: :twisted:
Then, I pulled out some tricks. We played some power chords, some scales, etc - I even tried some arps. This went on for about 15 minutes.
For the next week, she would walk around doing the \"air guitar\" thing. When I'd call her out on it, she would say (being the dork that she is): \"I KNOW GUITAR!\"
Give you an example, very simple. As some here know, I am a big Microsoft Excel geek. I present myself as \"one of the top Excel experts worldwide\" (and available for hire at reasonable rates
At least get something. Free advice is a good thing; free specific instructions makes you much more invested in the teaching experience than the student, which is never good.
Also, see above. If my interview outline doesn't go well, I suggest you don't waste your time.
This is kind of the problem with our lead singer (see the vocalist problems thread if needed). She wants to learn. She is very musical, has exceptional ear, and has potential. Ever since the first time we played and she had \"claws\" on her fingers, which I told her to get rid of after the first time I had her try playing guitar, and she has had nails perfectly trimmed since - a big deal for girls. She loves guitars, and loves listening to guitar playing. She is near-orgasmic at a cool guitar solo. She has offered several times to take her clothes off (jokingly) after I pulled off a cool solo (I usually offer to play it again). And she wants to learn how to do all that (the guitar, not the clothes-off-taking).
Because of the benefit this potentially brings to the band, I ask nothing of her but to show up for practice 1-2 hours earlier than scheduled. That's all - and it hasn't yet happened. One time, I gave her my guitar tuned to an open Dmin chord and a tuner, and instructed her to bring it to standard tuning - didn't happen (had it for three weeks before I took it back - she was allowed to keep it if she came close enough). I gave her a theory book - not even Theory 101, just a Theory for Non-Music Majors book - she's not even past the second chapter (it has been 6 months at least). You have to gauge enthusiasm versus commitment, and make your decision as to whether or not to take on a student accordingly.
FWIW, I (as some may know) was born in Russia and went to music school there. They don't just accept anyone who wants to go and has money. There is a rigorous audition process, because the schools want talented children, and most applicants fail. It's like a high-end private school. In the end, I got into an internationally-recognized program, but this was preceded by a series of failed audition. And this takes place at age 5-6, at the latest. Kind of like the karate kid guy in Crossroads.
Hey Shredd, best line you've had in a long while. Loved it.
Didn't mean to be so cranky, but just got tired of hearing that students don't value their guitar lessons when they are given them for free. My point was that if the teacher doesn't value his time, effort, or expertise on the guitar enough to be paid for a lesson, then how can anyone expect a student to value the skill?
I just believe that most people value something more if they have to earn it or pay for it. If your students are truely poor, they could at least trade some of their time mowing the lawn, raking the leaves, or something else in exchange for a teacher spending time with them on the guitar. If not, there is usually a public library where they can check out some self instruction books. If the student is not willing to work to pay for his lessons, then I would suggest that the student is truely not that interested in learning how to play. Better just to suggest some self learning books he can buy at the music store or check out at the library.
One last thought, all my guitar teachers had spent the time, effort, and money to get certified or licensed to teach guitar. That might not make them a better guitar player, but it does show that they actually worked to learn some method of teaching the instrument to others. They approached the teaching aspect as part of their \"profession.\"
There's a huge element of desire that makes a student learn well.
And...there's also a lot of teachers out there that are in the wrong gig. Being certified or licensed would be a start; but then, all you'd have is teachers who've passed a test or taken some classes. (and speak Russian...right iliace?) Remind me to tell the story of the Los Angeles massage therapist licensing program sometime.
Being a skilled git'rist does NOT a good teacher make. In fact, I'd prefer to take lessons from someone who's a great teacher, even if not a great git'rist. The kind of person who inspires their students about the lessons and instills desire for betterment and the vision of excellence.
But what I really want is sensual massage lessons from Anne H. :twisted:
to iliace, id say she has absolutely no training in music whatsoever. shes almost tone deaf when it comes to singing but she has fun doing it. her goes as far as playing go about as far as you could throw an amp. the songs she wants to play (anything from disney) are almost all simple chord progressions and short single note lines. i dont know how much she practices cuz im only going to see her once a week and i only instructed her to \"just pick it up once a day and just get comfortable on it\" right now were at the stage of getting her fret hand used to the pain on her fingertips which she discribes as \"looking like zebras\" to just learn a few chords and maybe some simple lines how long would you reccomend to play a day? since youve taught people of all metal status's. also id rate her as average on your scale as it didnt take too long to understand tablature but it didnt exactly click right away.
As far as lessons go--I think that is what this thread is about
I am self taught as well as PoetsTale is, but if people hear you play and want to learn from you, take it as a complement and teach 'em. I always told them I'm self-taught and will teach what I know. I bet most the guitar players on this forum are self-taught.
Shredd, speaking of lessons, I know Shania knows how to play guitar--how 'bout teaching her drums. Show how to beat some skins
I'm also a \"self-taught\" git'rist (which implies I actually know how to play... :oops:). But it's doable. A self-taught git'rist can be a great player.
One of my git'r heroes, Kim Mitchell (ex-frontman for Max Webster) is self taught, except for one summer of lessons from a young Joe Satriani.
And my reigning god of git'rists, Alex Lifeson, is completely self-taught, save for a handful of classical git'r lessons he took back in the 80's. 8)
Ill share a story of my current student. When I first meet Dan he showed up at my door, With a thousand doller Marshall amp and a Les Paul studio and couldn't play a cord. I was kinda pissed at guitar center. I was thinking he wont even be jamming in a month.
So after a month of messing with Dan I noticed his playing just sucked. I've spelled this out for him in plain english...
So it dawns on me he's a I can do it better than you kind. So I start ragging on him a little. He can't do this or that. LOL a month later he's ripping. So I lay off and he goes right back to crap. But now since I no he can play he no's he can play. It only takes a seconded to straighten up. When heres that clunky nasty picking of his. But I always have to embaresse him first....I've had a lot of guys just like him!!!!!!!! :evil:
Reminds me of g's signature, about how playing is about relaxing the mind before using the hands.
So. Any of you geenyusez got any tips for me about how to make women adore me?
It takes talent to find what motivates students. Having taught K-8 in public schools for 6 years, I know what motivates one student may not motivate another. It has been my experience that most students like to be challenged, but not embarrassed. They usually respond better to praise when deserved, but not to ridicule them when they do not do well.
Personally, I think I would rather be in a band with other guys who encourage each other and work together at getting better at their craft, rather than with guys who rip each other apart and embarrasse each other thinking that will motivate their bandmates. It would not work with me, nor ANY of the successful musicians I personally know.
Unless you are teaching these young guitarists to be soloists, I would kindly suggest that you keep in mind what kind of musician you would want them to be later in life. Do you want them to embarrasse their bandmates to perform better? Do you want them to \"rag\" on their bandmates? If that is the way he was taught, that is probably the attitude he will carry on later in life. I don't think that attitude will get him very far in a working band. The professional musicians I know around here all have figured out how to work well with others. It's just part of being in a band. Attitude often trumps talent, because most of us will never be a Eddie Van Halen or Jimi Hendrix.
Teaching is an awesome responsibility when you think of it. You are not just teaching someone how to play the guitar. That may be fundamental, but a good teacher will also be preparing the student how to act and behave in the context of working with others in his band. I know some guys with talent on the instrument, but bad people skills. They bounce from one band to another because they just don't have the people skills to keep it together.
Obviously I don't know the context of your relationship with your student, but \"ragging\" on him and \"embarrassing\" him are some pretty tough words. I would suggest that you could take that same energy and \"challenge\" and \"motivate\" your students. Then, with a positive spin on things, we as musicians all benefit. I am sure you are a good teacher, but I also know that teaching is a learning skill in and of itself. As a teacher, it took me years of working with students to find ways to motivate them. I constantly was learning from older, more experienced, teachers. I hope something I have said here will help you and your students. If not, I still wish you and your student great success. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
gtaus, I agree with everything you said, but Poet isn't teaching a class room full of students! But one on one. The way I took it was After assessing this particular student, he determined that this was the best way to get the best out of him. If he didn't care if he got better and just wanted his money why bring it up? And I also got the feel that this wasn't a kid but a grown man. But I could be wrong. And from what I get out of it, is that it worked! I never got the vibe that this was his only method of getting his students to push themselves. And his assessment was right in this particular case.... it did motivate and challenge this student.
I realize that Poet is working one on one with a student and that is why I gave him credit for finding some way to motivate him. And I also don't know much about his particular relationship with the student. I only intended to offer some suggestions that I thought might serve him well for his students in the future. As far as his assessment of what that student needed, I leave that up to him. My only point is that students often reflect the manner in which they were taught. If \"ragging\" on him and \"embarrassing\" works on him as a student, the student may think that is \"the way\" to work with other musicians when/if he starts working in a band or with other musicians. In my limited experience, it won't work to \"rag\" on and \"embarrasse\" other musicians to motivate them. They will kick you out of the band or quit on you. Either way, you will probably end up as a solo act.
At any rate, I truely did mean it when I wished both Poet and his students my best wishes. Anyone who is trying to teach and encourage other musicians to pick up the skill and carry it forward is a hero in my eyes. We need more young, and young at heart, students to carry on the craft.