vocalist problems
I'm going to follow in gtaus's footsteps and tell you guys all about my cover band problems.
We are a five piece, the recent lineup until changes were made being guitar, bass, drums, female vocals, and male vocals. It's a diverse group with a very wide range of material stylistically - anything from Rhianna to Ozzy, and everything in-between. Classic rock, rap, country, modern/alternative rock, metal, r&b, reggae - you name it we've done it.
Now, I've played with the male vocalist (original in the lineup) for many years. He was the lead vocalist for 44lbs for years. Over the years, he has improved many things about his performance, learned some new stuff and learned to stretch himself. All good things, but I feel he has not done enough. Me and the bassist are life-long musicians and take music very seriously. We talk about hardcore music theory, technical details of instruments and mixing equipment, and so forth. It came time to kick the singer out, and in fact he quit before we ever got a chance to do it. This happened a week ago.
This past thursday, we tried out another male singer that we found on craig's list. When we ran through some of songs he suggested, as well as some of ours that he knew, it sounded pretty decent. He was well diversified in both listening and performing interests, on the same page as far as band direction, and on a personality level a good guy (albeit a little weird).
Then, we tried it again on Sunday and the only variable was that we had the girl there. Now, she is quite good - she was good when we got her, she has gotten better, so she sings well - and next to her, the dude sounded absolutely horrible! He was not in any sort of key, not at all on pitch, and had a difficult time hitting harmonies even after I spent 10 minutes breaking down the triad for him. Needless to say, we were blown.
We have a few more guys coming in the next couple of weeks, but now I'm scared. Given the enormous setlist (pushing four hours now), and heavy demands on both wide pitch range and stylistic variety, I feel like we're not going to find someone who is into us and vice versa. It's either going to be, some amazing singer who doesn't want to play in a cover band (many responded in that vein), or some guy like the one we just tried who really wants to be in the band but would make us look bad. Granted, we're in the DC/Baltimore area so there are many choices, and yet still I'm skeptical.
Anyone else have similar experiences to share?
We are a five piece, the recent lineup until changes were made being guitar, bass, drums, female vocals, and male vocals. It's a diverse group with a very wide range of material stylistically - anything from Rhianna to Ozzy, and everything in-between. Classic rock, rap, country, modern/alternative rock, metal, r&b, reggae - you name it we've done it.
Now, I've played with the male vocalist (original in the lineup) for many years. He was the lead vocalist for 44lbs for years. Over the years, he has improved many things about his performance, learned some new stuff and learned to stretch himself. All good things, but I feel he has not done enough. Me and the bassist are life-long musicians and take music very seriously. We talk about hardcore music theory, technical details of instruments and mixing equipment, and so forth. It came time to kick the singer out, and in fact he quit before we ever got a chance to do it. This happened a week ago.
This past thursday, we tried out another male singer that we found on craig's list. When we ran through some of songs he suggested, as well as some of ours that he knew, it sounded pretty decent. He was well diversified in both listening and performing interests, on the same page as far as band direction, and on a personality level a good guy (albeit a little weird).
Then, we tried it again on Sunday and the only variable was that we had the girl there. Now, she is quite good - she was good when we got her, she has gotten better, so she sings well - and next to her, the dude sounded absolutely horrible! He was not in any sort of key, not at all on pitch, and had a difficult time hitting harmonies even after I spent 10 minutes breaking down the triad for him. Needless to say, we were blown.
We have a few more guys coming in the next couple of weeks, but now I'm scared. Given the enormous setlist (pushing four hours now), and heavy demands on both wide pitch range and stylistic variety, I feel like we're not going to find someone who is into us and vice versa. It's either going to be, some amazing singer who doesn't want to play in a cover band (many responded in that vein), or some guy like the one we just tried who really wants to be in the band but would make us look bad. Granted, we're in the DC/Baltimore area so there are many choices, and yet still I'm skeptical.
Anyone else have similar experiences to share?
Comments
Vocalists are surely the hardest element of a group to fill. Any idiot can play a git'r (hey, I can do it...
THEN, you start getting into stuff like musical tastes...like the songbird, who's only into music that makes her look/sound good. :roll:
Its tough to find a good singer. Look at American Idol--thousands upon thousands try out, but not very many are worth listening too. American Idol acually gave me an idea to try out singers by having them sing with no accompanyment. Its brutal way to try out, but it tells the truth.
I know your probably anxious to get another singer, but don't settle for second best. There are singers out there that will fit your bill. You'll know it, because your gonna say \"THATS IT-Thats what we've been looking for.
Just out of curiousity, why do you want two lead singers? Does your female singer play an instrument?
Anyway, we discreetly advertised on Craigslist and started auditioning lead players. We were trying to figure out how to jettison him for another player when he flew off the handle just before one of our gigs last weekend and announced that he would fulfill our committments through labor Day and then quit. I think he must have sensed something was up. Anyway, the drummer has been freaking out because he is worried that we won't find the \"right\" player before Oct 17th which is a big gig for us. I have told him over and over to stop worrying about it as we are in a market rich with talented players. And even if we don't find the \"right\" guy before Oct 17th, we can fill it with someone who is good enough for that night.
I calm him down with this analogy: Its like selling a house, it can be on the market 30 days 90 days, 180 days, but it only takes 1 buyer to close the deal, so take your time and make sure it is the right buyer.
JV
There is that aspect of it, but for us it is likewise important that the singer (a) can sing with the instruments, i.e. he is in our key, not some other one, and (b) harmonize. Both the girl and our drummer hit harmonies exceptionally well, so we'd like to get at least a three-part going. On the other hand, the bassist and I have a b**ch of a time doing it. Good idea, notwithstanding... the a capella audition.
Yeah, princess plays cowbell and tamborine
My preference would be to have a second guitarist, and not just 2 1/2 power chords, but someone who could basically do everything I do, or at least most of it, and also sing. If that person were also a keyboardist, that would be ideal. And he needs to know how to rap, because I'm not really into the idea of having a dedicated rapper for just the 4-5 songs that we do. You can see how it gets difficult to piece the puzzle together once all those variables are thrown into the equation.
That's exactly what we did! And we thought we were being discrete, then the singer found that page and called us out on it. We had already decided to give him another chance, as he made improvements (and completely forgot that the page was still up). To add insult to injury, the only photo on the page was of his dog. Here's the link, it's now been updated but the dog picture is still there. http://bandmix.com/56kay/
So now we're just looking for \"Singer looking for band\" ads, rather than post our own.
I was sort of weary of the girl at first, because when we initially asked her for the songs she wants to do, it was mostly slow sappy R&B stuff (and \"Anything by Alanis, god I love Alanis!!!!!\"). In her case, it was pretty clear right away that she'll try just about anything (AC/DC didn't work, but she gave it an honest effort). And, she appreciates the opportunity to hear new music and to play it. She does like songs that make her look/sound good - which is mostly the Alicias and the Mary Js, but she does killer versions of Heartbreaker and Bring Me To Life. Then again, who wants to play songs that make them sound and look bad?
I was always the singer but I made darn sure that I played as well on many songs. Rythm electric and acoustic guitars, some duel leads and bass too. For one thing to give the guys a break during a 4 hr set.
My band mates would step up to the plate and make the effort to sing whatever they could to give me a break as well. We were and are all \"musicians\" and will play many diffrent roles when needed. I personaly cant gig with just a vocalist...I hate that star search stuff. Seems you can prop anybody up with enough voice correction and doublers\" to be a \"singer\"
8) maybe a Dave Mathews kinda singer instead of a David lee roth would be a better fit...or instead of worring about american idol
That way you'll have a guy who loves to record and mix and research new gear etc just like you love to do in your spare time.
:shock: Heck I re setup my bass players rig this week and built a new mini PA. I'm useing TC helicon Voice solos this week, before he got to practise and he digs it. Yea I'm a Vocalist but hopefully thats just one part of me being a musician.
just my lame 2 cents.
P.s. If the guy cant harmonize our stay in key thats a sure sign in my book to keep lookin. a truly good vocalist will elevate your preformance and bring dynamics right away just like when you find the right guitarist...things really start to cook. IMHO.
This last time we checked out college drama shows, plays, and talked to a few performers. The current band I jam with found their vocalists this way.
That's what I was going to suggest.... Are there any outfits around you that have someone that you feel would be nice fit to yours! Can be/is a BS thing to do if anyone in the other outfits are in your network but if they aren't or it's a new start up, maybe approach them during a break. never know they might not be happy where their at and be looking!
Just a thought.
In my current band I have the harmony duty. Sometimes I can just nail the job singing along with the original recordings, but have difficulty harmonizing with our lead singer. Other times there is no problem. I have no idea why. Some songs require more work on vocals than others. Still, if you are hiring a lead singer only for his voice, I would expect him to be able to stay on key and/or harmonize with your female lead vocal.
Hope you find yourself a new singer that fits in with the band. Good luck.
8) I am not that great a singer by any means My voice and range relates more to John Wait(babys) and Paul Rogers (Bad Co) than more technical vocals of greats like Steve Perry bruce dickenson or Steven Tyler.
I just don't get it when bandsmates cant even tell there off key. Its something I always hear even when my voice is tierd and FLAT. I know it is :oops: If you don't even notice your flat theres a real problem.
I worked on this forever with my buddys
I finally solved this issue with a Digitech Vocalist Live2. It sounds great live. Its not fake or canned and best of all it lets your guitar players ignore what they like to ignore best...the vocals :P :P :evil:
Now to be fair when learning guitar parts I am sure my very pateint buddys often get frustrated at my lack of natural ability as well.
better watch out a digitech guitar harmonzer may just replace my guitar parts too
You said you solved your problem by using a Vocalist pedal. Is it one of those pedals that you can set to automatically harmonize with your own voice? That might be cool.
Dude! Get on the bandwagon.
http://www.digitech.com/products/Vocalist_Live2/Vocalist_LIVE2_Video.php
Just remember - it doesn't matter what the device is. GI/GO.
Didn't I mention that I am not the band's vocalist? Anyway, I was suggesting to our lead vocalist that he check into some of those vocalist pedals. Right now, we are singing into the mics dry, and adding some reverb and chorus effects on the PA for the output. It sounds a whole lot better than just sending out a dry vocal signal. But, I have never used a vocalist pedal, and our bandwagons around here don't have any either. That is to say, our local music shops don't carry any vocalist pedals to even try.
Usually I am on the bandwagon, but I have to admit my lack of knowledge in regards to vocal processors. Never used them. Would you recommend me getting one as a backup vocalist, or is this pretty much a tool for the lead vocalist? Thanks.
0db - I've heard several of your recordings, is that you singing and playing guitar or does it vary? Because many of them are quite good, in both regards.
My bandmates are pretty much anti anything they haven't already used. I, on the other hand, am always looking for new toys that either help or inspire me as a musician. Did I \"need\" a GNX4? No. But it really inspired me to start playing again with the ability to load up backing tracks, OBR, drum machine, etc....
We also decided to recruit through every avenue available - meeting people at gigs (ours or theirs), advertising online, and contacting others who are advertising online. We will use the strategy recommended by G3456 - list credintials, all of them, and see who meets the most. Internally, we'll come up with a ranking system for credentials, and evaluate accordingly - for instance, I would like a second guitar, and the bassist prefers a keyboardist - that sort of thing. If we can have both, sure; if it's between one or the other, we'll use judgement according to our established value system.
Most importantly, we have decided to take matters into our own hands. Our bassist has taken over a few of male lead vocal duties (and has done an outstanding job), the drummer already does backup and agreed to do a few leads, and I'm debating whether I'm going to do that as well. So we should be able to cover for any shortcomings and recruit at the same time. We don't need just a body - especially not another male body in a band where M/F ratio is 3/1 as it is - we need someone who is a good musician and will increase the value of the group by being a part of it.
Thanks for the comments. This thread has inspired me and the other three core members to keep going and be positive.
Its always me singing and playing rythm guitars.
About half the time its a guest soloist for the lead tracks.
there are some great solos by
Insideout -Rollin, When Darkness falls
Tal Rules- Blue City , Jamacian moonshine
Bababoey- double or nuthin, Vujaday
Killintime- Black water
Bjeff- long way home
Paul F. - Jesses song
:twisted: All great guitarist from this forum that were so KEWL to work with. :twisted:
step up to the plate and blossom. You only got a flat tire, not a broken crankshaft and lots of road left to explore.
Lately my band has been playing one venue where the first two hours are more or less open mike, followed by two hours of just the band's material. I printed out lyrics for many of the songs that we know how to play. If a singer wants to sing with our band, I hand them my lyrics folder and say these are the songs the band knows how to play. If you want to sing something else with the band, you will have to teach us the song. Point is, we have had a few singers/guitarist come up who actually had some talent and enjoyed playing with our band. That might be one way to \"try out\" a singer without any pressure on anyone. You don't even have to pretend it's anything other than an open mike singer having fun with the band. If the singer/guitarist is talented, get their name and contact info and look them up later. Just an idea to throw out there as long as you guys are expanding your net....
I'm also open to \"guitar-aoke\" Whenever I go to karaoke I wish that were an option. I can sing very limited range of materials, a few Beatles songs, some Led Zeppelin and G&R number, etc, but I can't cover them all - however, I could play the guitar parts, at least fake it. So we'd be coming up with two lists, one for singing and one for guitarring. And you could mix them up too. What do you guys think of that idea?
So, you record the parts of a song, even vox too, and leave out the git'r part, so someone can come up n play it.
Maybe simple stuff, so any guat with an acoustic can sit down and play...or some rockin' stuff that any git'r would sound good at?
OK, I love the idea. For years I have wished that backing tracks would come with instruments on seperate tracks. So, for example, you could simply dump the wav file of the drums on one track of the GNX4 OBR, dump the bass guitar on another track, then the rhythm guitar, then the lead guitar, then vocals. With the GNX4, we could have 8 seperate tracks for each song and use any combination of those tracks live. Imagine the endless possiblities.....
The only way I currently know how to do this is to take a midi file and put each midi instrument on a seperate track with software, like PTP. Then render the midi track(s) to audio and export that track(s) to the OBR, each in its own track. It works, but it takes time. My midi module sucks for the guitar sounds, but I have read that the newer software plugins are really sounding good. I guess the other option would be to dump whatever rendered midi audio you like to the tracks on your GNX4 OBR and just record your own tracks for the guitar parts on the remaining tracks of the recorder. When playing back the song live, you could just chose which tracks to include/exclude.
So let me ask a question, does anyone here on the forum have a killer midi module software plugin they use for rending their midi tracks to audio? Again, my midi module's guitar sounds are pretty lame. Even I sound better on guitar than my midi guitar sounds. But I hear there are some good midi plug-in modules out there now. Any help?