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Why do some muscians flame others?

Doing some \"research\" on YouTube eariler tonight and came across a video bass cover of Black Sabbath's \"Heaven and Hell.\" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grMO_ES6uRg. Some young kid playing bass and really getting into it - head banging, stance, facial expressions, etc.... Not the best bass player I have heard and certainly not the best cover of bass guitar on Heaven and Hell on YouTube, but I loved his attitude. Anyway, a few other guys left comments flamming him for his performance and telling him to learn the song before all the head banging, etc.... I see one negative post was deleted entirely.

Maybe I'm just getting too old, but whatever happened to just hitting the \"next\" button and viewing something you might consider better - instead of taking time to flame the guy who posted his video? Personally, I don't throw stones at other musicians because I know I'm not that good and even if I am better than them, I don't have to put anyone else down. I mean, it's Rock n' Roll, so where's the fun in flamming anyone?

Just got done watching an Iron Maiden video \"Flight 666\". One of the band members made the comment that went something like this; \"If you like our music, God Bless You. And if you don't like our music, Well, God Bless You Too.\" But maybe thats the way true musicians appproach their music and the public - with a positive approach to everyone.

In my limited experience in the local music scene, there are many guys with talent but few that make it to the stage with a band very long because of personal demons (drinking, drugs, etc.) or poor working attitude with their bandmates. I'm really lucky that my band's current lineup is the best ever as far as working together and dependability. We stay excited about our music and I don't hear anyone flamming other musicians. Whatever happened to \"Mama said, if you don't have somthing nice to say about someone.....\"

Comments

  • good observation, 'taus. However, you'll find - especially in a \"more is better\" society such as ours - it's easier for most to feel better about themselves by slamming others. In other words - if you want to feel bigger, don't grow - chop everyone else's legs off. Sad, but a common thing... :?
  • I think, many times, these types of comments come from people who haven't done it themselves, feel that they can do it - and possibly do a better job - but never get around to it. Or, possibly, they couldn't do it themselves, but feel that the performance they're watching is somehow inadequate and therefore decide they need to bash. It makes them feel better about themselves.

    Or, there may be other reasons having nothing to do with the actual musical performance. Maybe his bass was a cheap ripoff of a better one the commenters have (although they can't play it well). Or they don't like his shirt. Or his hair looks \"gay\" in their estimation. Sometimes it comes down to non-musical reasons and they take it out on the music.

    This happened to us this past weekend.

    My original band is looking for a replacement female vocalist. Our best prospect right now had her debut performance on Saturday. She isn't the fastest learner or the best singer, but she's a hard worker with a positive attitude, plus her voice sounds really pretty.

    She's also really hot. She has some form of hormonal imbalance, which is a pain for her, but she uses it to her advantage. Because of this issue, she has a high metabolism and can gain muscle mass easily. So, she's tall, slim, and muscular. At 29, she's in perfect shape; she's very athletic and most women her age, if they don't already look like she does, are very unlikely to ever look that good.

    For her debut performance, she did a pretty good job. Not the best; she was very nervous (I attribute most of her problems to that), and remembered about 90% of her parts correctly. But, for two rehearsals, I consider that acceptable.

    There was a table of girls, who are friends of ours, at this show. After the set, I asked some them for feedback, and much of it was very negative, to the point where I'd never expect this person to ever say such mean things about anyone. One girl whose opinion I was particularly interested in said something to the end of, \"she can't even sing, she didn't hit a single note right!\" which is fine.... but she kept going on and on about how horrible the new singer is, which I found very surprising.

    Also at that table was our male singer's girlfriend. She's younger and better looking than most girls at the table. What she told us was interesting: apparently, the singer's vocal ability was thoroughly judged before she ever opened her mouth; the girls were jealous of her good appearance, and could care less about her voice. The GF's one specific comment was: \"after tonight, I finally understand the meaning of the phrase 'caddy b!tches'\".

    That tells you a lot about human tendencies. Whose judgement you trust, and for what reasons, is entirely up to you. For me, it's certainly not people who make comments on YouTube.
  • This past weekend I went out to see a new local band that plays hard rock/metal. Their drummer is a former drummer of ours that we had to let go due to his issues with substance control and inability to make it to our gigs. Anyway, great drummer, great guy, just some personal demons in his life that he has not been able to shake. I heard that his new group was playing in town so I wanted to see them and check up on my old bandmate.

    The band was really tight and I liked their music selection. But just the opposite of your female lead, their female lead was a fantastic singer but really lacked in the visual eye candy appeal. Over tall, over weight, and just plain to look at. But that girl could sing. I bet in many ways, her lack of physical knock out looks probably works to her advantage. Because she is no threat in the looks department to most women, they probably give her more of a chance from the get go with her singing and don't automatically negatively judge her from the start like what happened to your female lead.

    Maybe that is why Janis Joplin was so popular. She was no beauty queen, but man she could sing. On the other hand, IMHO, Stevie Nicks from Fleetwood Mac and solo work, had it all - beauty, voice, stage presence.

    I think we can be honest as musicians and still have the decency not to flame one another. When I ask my brother-in-law how my performance was, or my band's performance, he gives me a pretty honest assessment without flamming. I was playing a bass line wrong on one new song, and he told me when and where I needed to throw in the missing pattern. He was right, I changed the bass line, and the song is now much better and truer to the original. That's constructive comments and I welcome that. But, like you said, he has experience playing up on stage, knows our abilities and limits, and his constructive comments are based on what he feels the band can improve on given our ability.

    You guys are right. I think some people get off knocking other people down. For all I know, maybe the flammer is a \"Guitar Hero\" player who thinks because he nailed a certain song on the game, that he is now a \"real\" musician himself and entitled to flame others. Now that I think of it, I might start a thread on that topic.....
  • You know the nicest guys I know musically, are generally just freakn' monsters. Nothing to prove, they KNOW they can do it. Any criticism from these guys, is usually heartfelt, in an honest opinion of how to help you improve.

    The flame guys, usually have an over inflated ego, and do that kind of crap, to cover up their own inadeuquacies in their playing.
  • I have observed that \"professional\" level guys rarely flame if ever.They realize that its \"too each his own\" and recognize that whichever direction a person goes is personal but talent in that genre should be recognized with respect.

    Amateurs/hobbyists/headphone guitar gods are more prone to be critical to no end mostly because they know their abilities are limited and just want to pass on the misery to others :roll:

    Just goes to prove that snobs of any caliber are mentally/emotionally weak people.
  • I never pro-offer my criticism of any musicians. First of all, I'm not that good myself. Second of all, even constructive criticism can be taken the wrong way. So if asked for my opinion, I always try to find good things to say and then maybe a small suggestion for improvement (usually sugar-coated). Point is, sometimes it's just too easy to pile on criticism on some people. It's much harder to find positive things to say and keep someone motivated to improve.

    The better musician's I know keep their opinions to themselves. If asked for some pointers, they might suggest one thing and just leave it at that. I think most of the time people only really want positive feedback. So better to err on that side.
  • There are usually two categories to this effect. There are those that can, and then there are the critics. Those that can, know what kind of work has to be put in to be able to perform a song and are more able to understand where a performer might be at in there learning journey. Someone that can is more likely to try to find something positive to comment on first before any constructive comments are given. On the other side the internet critic has not spent not one minute to learn a craft so they have no idea of the hundreds of hours that are committed to learn to play an instrument. Because the pro's make it look so easy to do the internet critic in some cases thinks it is easy because they have never even tried to play an instrument. Also because of the fact that you have no real identity on the internet it is much easier to take a cheap shot and not worry about it. Face to face not as much do to possible injury. But I will have to say that hearing the words \"YOU SUCK\" can be a good thing, as far as fanning your fire to do better, or some throw up their hands and quit. At some point you have to face some heat, it's all in how the person let's it effect them. But we all need to learn to deal with it. Just my thoughts.
  • ...Because the pro's make it look so easy to do...

    Well, I get paid to play music, but like most guys in my experience/skill level, we don't really consider ourselves \"pros.\" But what you said is so true. Recently I attempted to learn a song that was beyond my skill level. It took me two weeks of hard woodshedding before I nailed it. Now when I play it, it feels easy, and it probably looks easy to those watching me (if anyone does). Point is, I know the hours and hours over two weeks that it took me to get to that level to play just that one song. If anyone told me that I sucked at that song, I would know everything I needed to know about them. First of all, I know that they could not play the song, because, second of all, I know that anyone who could play that song would not be making a comment like that because they would be at a level high enough to understand the difficulty.

    Like you said, musicians with skills don't really knock others. At least the guys I know.
  • Also because of the fact that you have no real identity on the internet it is much easier to take a cheap shot and not worry about it. ..... Face to face not as much, due to possible injury. .....But I will have to say that hearing the words \"YOU SUCK\" can be a good thing, as far as fanning your fire to do better, or some throw up their hands and quit. At some point you have to face some heat, it's all in how the person let's it effect them. But we all need to learn to deal with it. Just my thoughts.

    The anonymity on the net is a major courage booster for alot of folks learning to over come or dealin' with a inferiority complex..

    As fer hearing you suck! LoL .. ya it can cause some to hunker down an get crackin' ... but for most, especially those just starting or shall I say just past the starting point an into the finding of who they are on the instrument.. it can be demoralizing! No one wants to be slammed.. Even so called pro's.. I was at this skynyrd show way back when, tesla was the opener and this kid kept harping on Rossington on how he sucked and tesla ruled etc.. finally Rossington swipes his forehead resulting in a palm full of sweat, and throws it in the kids face while ending up with 'the bird' !! The kid shut up !! still makes me laugh thinking about it..

    It's all in how one says \" YOU SUCK\"!!
    \tal\ wrote:
    The flame guys, usually have an over inflated ego, and do that kind of crap, to cover up their own inadeuquacies in their playing.
    It doesn't have to be vocal. The eye rolling, smirk or any combination of body language says alot, sometimes louder than words.

    Alot of good quotes to comment on in this thread.. alas I can't get to all of them :P
    \cyclonic\ wrote:
    Just goes to prove that snobs of any caliber are mentally/emotionally weak people.

    Getting down to the root! :wink:
  • \Rawb\ wrote:
    ... I was at this skynyrd show way back when, tesla was the opener and this kid kept harping on Rossington on how he sucked and tesla ruled etc.. finally Rossington swipes his forehead resulting in a palm full of sweat, and throws it in the kids face while ending up with 'the bird' !! The kid shut up !! still makes me laugh thinking about it.. ...

    Reminds me of a story an older friend of mine told me. He went to a concert and Lynyrd Skynyrd was opening for Eric Clapton. After Skynyrd was done, the singer made a swipe at Clapton saying that he was nothing compared to Greg Allman. No class there. Anyway, Clapton comes out on stage, all by himself with just his guitar, and blows the crowd away. Never says a word in response to the comments made by Skynyrd. Now that was class! Then Clapton let his band on stage and continued the concert. Pure magic.

    Wasn't there myself, but if the story is true like told to me, it's just shows how if you have the talent, let it speak for itself.
  • It all comes down to maturity.

    Recent gig I was attending another guitar player from another band was standing in the rear of the room, arms folded and criticizing almost every song to his friends.

    I know this guy. He's a good player.. type that posts note for note VH runs on youtube every other day, and writes things like \"see how awesome I am\", bumps his own posts regularly. He's not modest or humble one bit. Of course if you ask him what HE does with his own originality, that's another story.
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