firing a friend from a successful band
Well, we just fired our drummer of two years last night and he is an old friend of mine. I’m feeling pretty depressed about it so I hope this long missive doesn’t strain anyone’s patience too much, but I could use some therapeutic writing about now.
The singer and other guitar player kindly relieved me of any involvement although I may have been complicit in the whole affair. I just felt like I was not able to run interference any longer without losing my credibility as a musician. The drummer was devastated, angry and felt completely betrayed as this has been a fairly successful project as gigging bands go and it was very tough on him to give up his position.
About two years ago, myself, another guitar player and the singer decided to put a gigging band together as we all had played professionally for many years before, quit for awhile to pursue careers and families and now found ourselves with more time on our hands and a passion still burning to play for people. We needed a drummer and I thought of my friend of many years who is just a great guy, huge heart, very popular with a large base of friends who would come and see the band. His chops however, were weak. He could jam like a mother, but I knew that committing to this project would severely test his ability to perform as a pro under the pressure of playing live. I thought that with some hard work we could get him ready and he would continually progress and rise to the level of the rest of us and perhaps beyond. I was wrong. I should have known better considering how many bands I have been in and knowing how important a good drummer is to a band. Especially from the start. I think my judgment was clouded by our friendship.
There was some drama about a year ago necessitating us replacing the original lead guitar player. We replaced him within a week with our new guy who instantly elevated the level of play within the band. (listen to the new guy’s chops here: ) We all answered the call and stepped up as well, except for the drummer. He was struggling and we found ourselves passing on many tunes that we all liked to cover if the drumming parts presented difficult timing or licks. The frustration level was growing. On my part as well.
Last December, the singer told me he couldn’t get up on stage anymore and put the energy into the performance unless we changed drummers or the drumming changed. I asked him to talk to the drummer and get a commitment out of him to practice his ass off because we all knew that he just wasn’t putting the time in. (He has a very demanding job which understandably crunches him for time). The drummer promised that he would “shape up” and for a little while things did improve…a little. But, the gig before last he was an hour and a half late for set up necessitating a hurried sound check and when we showed up for rehearsal a week after that gig, his drums were not set-up meaning he hadn’t practiced all week…I was deeply disappointed knowing this was not a good pattern. Now, I know a lot of us are able to not touch our instruments for a week or so and still show up on Fri or Sat night and sound good flying by the seat of our pants, he doesn’t have those kinds of chops and I think he tried to do just that last Fri night…which was the last straw.
It was a bad night….musically. I don’t think the crowd caught wind of anything, but it was bad for us onstage and it did affect my energy and playing and I could see that the singer and the lead guitar player were affected as well. As a result, we had to work a lot harder than I believe I have ever worked with this band that night.
Anyway, after breakdown the crowd was its usual gratuitous self and the club manager was in good spirits as he handed me the money and told me to call him for April and beyond. All good, right? Wrong. The singer was pissed and left. The lead guitar player was pissed and was belly up to the bar downing tequila shots like a sailor who had just pulled into port. I knew the drummer was in trouble so I just left. I did not hear from anyone all weekend, which is unusual for this group who are like a bunch of chatty schoolgirls. Another bad sign. The singer called me Monday afternoon and conferenced with the lead guitar player. They both had made up their minds…..dump the drummer or they were leaving. What could I say? I had already used up my good time credits in December by suggesting a “come to Jesus” talk and I wasn’t really in disagreement with anything they said or were feeling. They graciously offered to relieve me from this gruesome task knowing how close our family is to the drummer’s family (our kids go to the same middle school and we have played often at school parish functions; the wives are close friends and are rabid supporters of the band). Well, they announced that the “change” should come this thurs night because that was the earliest that both of them could get together and meet the drummer. I went home in a fog and decided to call the drummer the next morning and let him know what was coming and just face his wrath. I instead get a call from the singer at 10:30 that night telling me that he had just left the drummer at a restaurant and the meeting did not go well. He decided to just get it over with and drove to a place nearby asking the drummer to meet him. The singer basically took all of the heat but I still had to have a conversation with my friend the drummer, the next morning. I was wondering if we were still going to be friends. It was a long and sleepless night.
Whew…….I still feel like a horse’s a--. I have written a ton already…sorry for the lonnnngggg ramble. Hahaha. But this was pretty tough.
JV
The singer and other guitar player kindly relieved me of any involvement although I may have been complicit in the whole affair. I just felt like I was not able to run interference any longer without losing my credibility as a musician. The drummer was devastated, angry and felt completely betrayed as this has been a fairly successful project as gigging bands go and it was very tough on him to give up his position.
About two years ago, myself, another guitar player and the singer decided to put a gigging band together as we all had played professionally for many years before, quit for awhile to pursue careers and families and now found ourselves with more time on our hands and a passion still burning to play for people. We needed a drummer and I thought of my friend of many years who is just a great guy, huge heart, very popular with a large base of friends who would come and see the band. His chops however, were weak. He could jam like a mother, but I knew that committing to this project would severely test his ability to perform as a pro under the pressure of playing live. I thought that with some hard work we could get him ready and he would continually progress and rise to the level of the rest of us and perhaps beyond. I was wrong. I should have known better considering how many bands I have been in and knowing how important a good drummer is to a band. Especially from the start. I think my judgment was clouded by our friendship.
There was some drama about a year ago necessitating us replacing the original lead guitar player. We replaced him within a week with our new guy who instantly elevated the level of play within the band. (listen to the new guy’s chops here: ) We all answered the call and stepped up as well, except for the drummer. He was struggling and we found ourselves passing on many tunes that we all liked to cover if the drumming parts presented difficult timing or licks. The frustration level was growing. On my part as well.
Last December, the singer told me he couldn’t get up on stage anymore and put the energy into the performance unless we changed drummers or the drumming changed. I asked him to talk to the drummer and get a commitment out of him to practice his ass off because we all knew that he just wasn’t putting the time in. (He has a very demanding job which understandably crunches him for time). The drummer promised that he would “shape up” and for a little while things did improve…a little. But, the gig before last he was an hour and a half late for set up necessitating a hurried sound check and when we showed up for rehearsal a week after that gig, his drums were not set-up meaning he hadn’t practiced all week…I was deeply disappointed knowing this was not a good pattern. Now, I know a lot of us are able to not touch our instruments for a week or so and still show up on Fri or Sat night and sound good flying by the seat of our pants, he doesn’t have those kinds of chops and I think he tried to do just that last Fri night…which was the last straw.
It was a bad night….musically. I don’t think the crowd caught wind of anything, but it was bad for us onstage and it did affect my energy and playing and I could see that the singer and the lead guitar player were affected as well. As a result, we had to work a lot harder than I believe I have ever worked with this band that night.
Anyway, after breakdown the crowd was its usual gratuitous self and the club manager was in good spirits as he handed me the money and told me to call him for April and beyond. All good, right? Wrong. The singer was pissed and left. The lead guitar player was pissed and was belly up to the bar downing tequila shots like a sailor who had just pulled into port. I knew the drummer was in trouble so I just left. I did not hear from anyone all weekend, which is unusual for this group who are like a bunch of chatty schoolgirls. Another bad sign. The singer called me Monday afternoon and conferenced with the lead guitar player. They both had made up their minds…..dump the drummer or they were leaving. What could I say? I had already used up my good time credits in December by suggesting a “come to Jesus” talk and I wasn’t really in disagreement with anything they said or were feeling. They graciously offered to relieve me from this gruesome task knowing how close our family is to the drummer’s family (our kids go to the same middle school and we have played often at school parish functions; the wives are close friends and are rabid supporters of the band). Well, they announced that the “change” should come this thurs night because that was the earliest that both of them could get together and meet the drummer. I went home in a fog and decided to call the drummer the next morning and let him know what was coming and just face his wrath. I instead get a call from the singer at 10:30 that night telling me that he had just left the drummer at a restaurant and the meeting did not go well. He decided to just get it over with and drove to a place nearby asking the drummer to meet him. The singer basically took all of the heat but I still had to have a conversation with my friend the drummer, the next morning. I was wondering if we were still going to be friends. It was a long and sleepless night.
Whew…….I still feel like a horse’s a--. I have written a ton already…sorry for the lonnnngggg ramble. Hahaha. But this was pretty tough.
JV
Comments
because rehearsals would almost turn into knock down drag outs. If the music would have been as hot as the tempers we would be millionaires. In the long run we decided it was more important to remain friends. Now many years later we can actully play together as we're both older and wiser. But sometimes you have to make a business decision and if your serious about a career in music it is a business. I think in the long run you will hopefully still be friends with your drummer and he will realize that
he was holding back the group and he couldn't offer what was needed to sustain it at the level everyone else was committed to. And it was actully the correct decision. Doesn't make it any easier.
I thought... okay, she's not doing great, but am I really such a bad judge of musical ability, as to not be able to agree? After all, these guys look up to me for chord progressions of cover songs, melodies for new originals, etc. And now they want to kick this girl out, despite my faith in her? I really felt like my function within the band is being usurped.
I was at the girl's house this Saturday - the male vocalist and I were helping her move. I had previously brought up the idea of me leaving the group with the bassist - a long-time friend and collaborator - who said that I have to do what I gotta do, basically. So, I decided to let everyone else in the band know how I felt, starting with the new female vox and the male lead, and once I had enough to drink I worked up the guts to do it. Bad idea, talking band business while drinking, but that's how it went down.
The girl looked like she was ready to cry. She said that, if we don't want her in the group, to let her know and that she would leave, but somehow me leaving nearly brought her to tears. So I told them two, that it is only right that I bring up my issues with the rest of the group.
I called the other girl singer, who, like the bassist, said she'd respect my decision. Then, I called the drummer, who in my opinion, has the least input in band decisions. I ended up spending 1.5 hours on the phone with him, and he said many things that made me rethink my involvement with the group, the overall group goals, and other related issues. After this conversation, I decided it was best for me to stay.
At this point, the bassist had already called out of rehearsal, and because of that, the drummer called out as well, citing no bass being unproductive for him to practice. Thus, we had an all-vocal sectional, in which I partook and ended up being very productive.
As a result, we decided that the new girl singer - one previously considered on the list of terminations - will be a very valuable asset to the group. She has made a great effort to warm up for practice, learned her songs nearly perfectly, and stepped up her game in the harmonies department.
Now, I was the only person in the group who still had faith in this girl. Over the course of the week, I gave her instructions for improving her vocals, and she definitely came through. It seems like she will continue this trend going forward.
I guess sometimes you just gotta have the right motivational talk with the weakest link, to make them stronger and more useful to the group. And if you have faith in a member's musical talent, don't give up on it until you know for sure that it won't work out. I'm sure glad I did, even though the whole band seemed to be against me a week ago.
Scotty Appleton: I thought we was friends.
Nino Brown: I told you, it's never personal, B. Friends is friends. This is business.
As a professional musician for many years, one thing you know is all bands will break up, and members will come and go, and come back again. I'm sure you have experienced breakups enough to know it never is easy, and with this being a personal long time friend, tougher still. I understand your reluctance to be the one to do the firing, and had hopes this whole situation could be minimized as much as possible, and in the end it was still messy. I wish you would have been given the opportunity to go to your friend with this, as you know in your guts, that would have been best. I think the singer was wrong to rush to do the deed, and \"take all the heat\" as it gives him some level of absolve. He should have stuck to the plan of giving you the time to go to your friend first. It almost appears he just couldn't wait to get rid of the drummer. I'm sorry it had to go down like this. Maybe some raw feelings have existed for some time, and especially when talent feels held back. I hope you guys can communicate openly, so future actions may be resolved before frustrations obstruct your goals.
You shouldn't feel guilt for offering your friend an opportunity to be your drummer. I think when this began 2 years ago, there was probably enough understanding he needed to \"catch up.\" Not everyone can commit themselves to a band, and also juggle family and a full time job. Bands all have major issues stemming from outside influences. Loyalties and commitments get questioned, and pressure builds. When this complicates professional aspirations, trouble will always brew. I think your friend should have felt realistically from the start, he is being given a chance, and the odds were more likely than not, he would be let go at some point. Every band member for that matter needs to keep this perspective. It's always a matter of when you will leave or be let go. The business is tough, and it's hard to survive. If your desire is to perform professionally, then you have to develop thick skin, learn to grow from all levels of criticism, and find ways to develop.
I hope your friend can work through the emotions now, and come out positive. You should do what you can to help him go through the natural negative feelings and not let it build or get buried. If he is going to come out of this positive, he has to work through the ugliness. Maybe being relieved of his commitment to the band right now will be the best thing for him? He may be able to focus back purely on his own skills, and make more development. He also may have been held back in the sense he couldn't find the time to grow in his own direction, as well as the obvious stress being built up will affect anyone's creative growth. Maybe he will come back in a year or two, and blow you guys away, or find the direction he needs to be in?
As you know, a band is a very serious business requiring extreme dedication from all its members, with diligent rehearsal schedules, not to mention the time and effort someone has to put in to managing the gigs, and keeping the band on the right track. Your friend brought some level of word of mouth, as well as his abilities. Everyone wants to feel respected and appreciated. Balancing all these egos and talent is too difficult for most bands, and that's why most bands have some level of dysfunction and one or more disgruntled members. You can't just be focused on the persons musical ability without also taking in account them as an individual as well. All I can suggest, is I think for a band to weather through the storms, the more you can openly communicate the better. Like iliace mentioned, he felt the need to have a few drinks to let the inhibitions reduce enough for him to open up honestly and freely. But you can't operate like that all the time.....no wait...I take that back....David Lee Roth. Wait...that's not a good example either. Wow, man...I don't know what to tell you. (drum throttle chunk and snap to Manitou's levity)
The best way to keep your band healthy and progressing forward, is to keep communication as strong and open as possible. When all the band members feel like they can say anything that is on their mind, the entire band gets stronger. Accept difficult decisions are always going to be necessary, and decide how as a band, this will not be neglected. Maybe this was the best way for this to be resolved. Maybe you needed someone else to take that responsibility. Something to consider for the future, and I wish you success and may God bless you and your friend, so your friendship can continue to be strong.
Tough decisions, but for me the drummer and bassist have to have the essential chemistry. I've done the friend thing many times for either of these positions and it was more of a challenge since there is more of this built in perception of friends surpasses the needs of the band. Problem is when they are not as committed. I've been in bands where the friends as musicians worked for a while, and were good but never took things as seriously as players who were not \"tied\"
The personal aspect makes things harder. I can tell you though that soon the member or your friend may realize their cut was for the betterment of all in the group. Our bassist was strong in a lot of ways but weak delivering modern or playing styles he just wasn't used too or comfortable with. The drummer worked to progress and our bassist who said he was working on tunes obviously was not and was hindering us. That created a mess in itself. Good friend of mine but the band asked me to do the deed of firing him. Not good since we were friends.
I think groups GET together and should make decisions to part ways with a member \"together\" and not talk around like gossiping teenagers fwiw. If there is anything I can't stand is the yapping and distorted viewpoints by time they get back around to the member involved. To me, that is very unprofessional.
Anyway, when we set out to replace our bassist, we had some luck and other hinderances.. all of a sudden they missed the former member... and that chemistry. So after a few rehearsals I said lets ALL discuss where we want to go. So we brought the new guy in and went more into deeper discussions since his 1st audition. We found out many parallels he and the drummer had that were not expressed early on. We told him open up to any topics and even criticisms. Problem is the members tend to lay back then when things go awry in a rehearsal they start the gossip again. Soon as that happened I took the reigns. None of this!
In 5 minutes they all realized we were having to move forward on one objective, not 5 different ones. I said to them if anyone feels their objectives are not the same... leave now. From that point and every rehearsal afterward, we had refined our goals and moved towards that profession we claimed to have. Band first, friends after.
Later our drummer had continuing issues. Personal and habitual which led to another instance of tougher decisions. We let him go. Auditions this time were even more serious and it took 25 or more to find the right guy for the job. In essence, what we learned from the bassist replacement added to our seriousness in a new drummer that must have the same goals, chops, and professionalism we required. Who had the most say in the new drummer? Our bassist. They are the pocket and they are the gel in the chemistry of the band. In the end, leaving the majority of weight on the bassist in that decision proved to be the better rationalization. Mind you, the other guys had past experiences with other drum candidates and really wanted to go there. I just didn't think it made sense to have to force chemistry rather than finding that guy that grooves well already.
Your friend status will remain. Hard feelings.. yeah but they get over it. Many players I jammed with I've seen in other bands, they've seen ours and so on. Time takes care of the wounds, but making the decision to cut is very hard. It is the same as the friend relationships grow with new members as well. You just have to keep an old rule.. band first, friends later when it comes to the band itself. When you are at non related music events with members then it's friends first, and band topics are left for that time and place. It's just a matter of keeping perspective. The two usually don't blend well at the same time.
I was at a baseball game with my kb player and he started talking about a member in our group. I said, save it for rehearsal... he said \"oh yeah.. my bad\". To me it's fine to have member discussions but not all criticizing or plain whining about something from a gig etc. If there is a pressing issue, then it can be discussed but the other party must have his time on the floor and often times you find more than one party contributed and can move forward without the back stabbing. But we are all human and it takes more effort to NOT discuss these issues that can just be an emotion or fueled by something external. Just like you have to practice your instrument, you have to practice professionalism. That includes living within the boundaries of \"friends\" vs band mates.
Not having the passion to practise often is not an option.
Putting in less effort than the rest is not an option either.
Did your friend feel he was the only one who didnt need to make a full on effort to be at his best.
A good profesional bass player friend of mine said it best I think...
\"Life is too short to play with $hitey drummers.\"
I would feel a little peaved your friend put you in this spot due to his lack of effort or perhaps....talent?
Ilia, your're right about talking it out with the band first and giving the \"target\" another chance. But in this case, both of the \"showcase\" talents were walking unless the change was made and they definitely would have been in another project within a week, gigging and not missing a step, so........it would have been different if I thought they were being arrogant, unfair and over the top, but they weren't. It is time.