Dorian or the 2 chord???

Tal Rules

Long running argument..
I don't believe in MODES...
I prefer to look at chord structures, and play within the confines..

Here's a tune that I wrote, kind of a minor blues type thing, with the minor 7 chords addressed as 2 chords..

(A minor 7 chord with a G major scale played on top of it..)..

Some people would call that Dorian..
I call it addressing the 2 chord...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=495855&songID=7262978

BettyBoo

Aw hell yeah!! Thats just magic Tal!

I kinda think in Modes myself but I know where you're coming from though, my dad thinks the same as you with his jazz playing. We can have some big arguments when we jam togather and try to follow each other

Well done on the song buddy, I can listen to that stuff all day. Do you like any of Robben Ford's stuff by any chance??

BBoo 8)

iliace

Dorian.

Rawb

\iliace\ wrote:

Dorian.

Isn't that the car they used in the movie, Back to the Future?


Real nice Tal .... 8)

iliace

No, it was that tribe where that guy was from. Herodotus, however you spell it. My drummer is writing his master's thesis on him currently, and this tune reminded me of it.

Tal Rules

it's still called addressing the 2 chord..

BettyBoo

\iliace\ wrote:

No, it was that tribe where that guy was from. Herodotus, however you spell it. My drummer is writing his master's thesis on him currently, and this tune reminded me of it.

You have a 'drummer' who is writing a masters thesis???? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Rawb

\BettyBoo\ wrote:

\iliace\ wrote:

No, it was that tribe where that guy was from. Herodotus, however you spell it. My drummer is writing his master's thesis on him currently, and this tune reminded me of it.

You have a 'drummer' who is writing a masters thesis???? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Geese, he's just writing a thesis :roll: Didn't say he could spell or was at the top of the class.... Lets keep things in perspective mate :!: :P

partch

That's cool Tal! Nice playing man! 8)

BettyBoo

\Rawb\ wrote:

Geese, he's just writing a thesis :roll: Didn't say he could spell or was at the top of the class.... Lets keep things in perspective mate :!: :P

Yeah I guess there would be a difference between being 'enrolled' and being 'dux'..... you make a good point! 8)

cyclonic

it might be beyond my comprehension but not my appreciation.THAT was NICE!! 8)

DenSco

potato, tometoe, F#, Gb, dried plumb, prunes. a wild wacky world. Nice tune.

Tal Rules

Thanks so much for your input on the tune.

As Densco so aptly pointed out, and what I was trying to say, is that you can get so caught up in jargon and rhetoric, that you sometimes forget what music is really about..

MAKING MUSIC!!!

Thanks once again...

And Densco....
If you talk to a serious string player he will point out there is a difference between F# and G flat. They don't have any frets, so are not limited by true tempermant, like us fretted guys..

I hate string players..LOL..

But you hit the nail on the head!!!! 8)

iliace

\Tal Rules\ wrote:

Thanks so much for your input on the tune.

As Densco so aptly pointed out, and what I was trying to say, is that you can get so caught up in jargon and rhetoric, that you sometimes forget what music is really about..

MAKING MUSIC!!!

Thanks once again...

And Densco....
If you talk to a serious string player he will point out there is a difference between F# and G flat. They don't have any frets, so are not limited by true tempermant, like us fretted guys..

I hate string players..LOL..

But you hit the nail on the head!!!! 8)

(make this thread an interview)

\"Tal... enharmonic spelling is important... just like modes are important. Why do you ignore these two items?\"

Tal Rules

first...
I'll have to look up what enharmonic means..

2nd...
All this mode stuff. I dont know of a single player, when jamming, starts thinking.. \"Oh Yeah.. Time for a little Mixolydian over this dominant 7 chord. \"...

I got a bookshelf full of books, that gather dust, that use this kind of thinking.

When you get right down to this mode stuff..
Are there any different notes that are not used in the major scale..

Dorian for example:
Just the notes D,E,F,A,B,C,D
C major
C,E,F,G,A,B,C..

WHERE\"S THE DIFFERENT NOTE!!!!
THERE AINT NONE!!!

This mode stuff, has done more to confuse musicians than anything I know of. You get so wrapped up in the theory, you forget to make music..

Your turn..

Mike B

well in your dorian example there is no \"G\", was that a typo?

I just know not to play a \"C\" note when playing in E


loved your example of cool smooth jazzy stuff.

peace.

Tal Rules

Thanks Mike..
A typo for sure..Sorry.. :oops:

iliace

Question #2.

\"When you were first starting to learn about Dorian, were you emotionally repressed in any way?\"

Tal Rules

No...

I can remember sitting in a music theory class, when it was introduced, thinking..
Big Deal..LOL Where's the different notes..

All you do is play a C major scale over a D minor 7 chord, and voila..
Instant Dorian..

And it just happens to work out that D minor 7 is a diatonic chord in C major..In fact is...It happens to be the 2 chord.

Isn't a lot easier to realize there are only 3 minor 7 chords, 2 major 7s, 1 dominant 7, and one half diminshed chord in any major scale. Then look at the just the chord and figure what tonal center to play in than, all this mode crap...

iliace

Question #3.

\"Progression is Dm i-iv-V7. Melody contains the following notes: C D E F G A B. Pianist asks you, what key are we in. What is your response?\"

DenSco

Music theroy for me was more than 40 years ago at Diablo Valley Junior College. It was not as informative as Tal's last post. Can't wait to get home to try that. Being Thursday home is far off as I practice with Jenny and her blue grass band then stop by the open mic in town on my way home. Thank you for the lesson, again. And again thanks for the cool post.

bababoey

There is such a thing as a 2 chord??

I am into blues. I thought there was only 1, 4 and 5 chords

:roll:

partch

\bababoey\ wrote:

There is such a thing as a 2 chord??

I am into blues. I thought there was only 1, 4 and 5 chords

:roll:

Now your talking. That's more my level 8)

iliace

The 2 chord is the secondary dominant of the 5. And the 6 chord is the secondary dominant of the 2. Hence you have 1-6-2-5-1 progression, very common in rock. Well, not sure how common exactly, but I recall hearing it on the radio just yesterday.

Or, if you wanted to go the full circle of dominants within the key, you'd have 1-4-7-3-6-2-5-1. Simple to do, too, leaving all the numbers out: for C major, it's Fmaj7-Bm7b5-Em7-Am7-Dm7-G7-Cmaj7.

Speaking of Bm7b5, Question #4: \"Half-diminished? :shock: What's that?\"

Rawb

Dang, where'd I put my boots.... it's getting deep around here!

Tal Rules

\iliace\ wrote:

Question #3.

\"Progression is Dm i-iv-V7. Melody contains the following notes: C D E F G A B. Pianist asks you, what key are we in. What is your response?\"

Don't understand..
If it is in D minor you would use an F pitch collection, with a B flat.
To make the 4 chord minor as you indicated G, Bflat, D you would have to be in the F major (D minor) pitch collection.

Otherwise the 4 chord for your Dminor would be G7. Using the notes you have above C,D,E,F,G,A,B


You would be in the key of C using the notes you stated, unless you really wanted that B flat, then you would be in the key of F.

Best I can guess at what you're trying to ask..

Tal Rules

\iliace\ wrote:

The 2 chord is the secondary dominant of the 5. And the 6 chord is the secondary dominant of the 2. Hence you have 1-6-2-5-1 progression, very common in rock. Well, not sure how common exactly, but I recall hearing it on the radio just yesterday.

Or, if you wanted to go the full circle of dominants within the key, you'd have 1-4-7-3-6-2-5-1. Simple to do, too, leaving all the numbers out: for C major, it's Fmaj7-Bm7b5-Em7-Am7-Dm7-G7-Cmaj7.

Speaking of Bm7b5, Question #4: \"Half-diminished? :shock: What's that?\"

\"Half Diminished is another name for the minor7 flat 5 chord. which occurs naturally on the 7th degree of a major scale, and on the 2nd degree of it's relative minor..

Consists of 2 minor 3rds and a major 3rd.
Key of C..
B, D, F, A built on the 7th degree B
In A minor it would B would be the 2nd degree.

In difference to the fully Diminish
3 minor 3rds.
B, D, F, Aflat... Gives you the raised 7th in the key of a minor..Think harmonic or melodic minor..

Mike B

when i wuz littler i heared Julie Andrews sang doe ray me.. in the sound o music, that was my music lurnin. If I git konfuzed about a song I jest watch that movie agin. it wuz like angels comin out her mouth. korse i didunt much like that ole lady sangin about climin ever mountin. then when i wuz less littler i heared about putin a fanger on the rekird sos you kood slows it down to hear how the picker wuz doin whut he wuz doin. Thats why I dont much like ceedees, ever try to put yer fanger on a ceedee to make it go more slower.Wunce that little door is open the durn thang stops spinnin.

jest half to member that ole 7th chord takes me back to the beginnin agin. All that stuff in between is jest the suttle thangs to make it more inturestin.

peace

Tal Rules

Stick with the Do, Re, Mi, thing Mike..

Mike B

I apologize if my satire was a little overboard. I have the greatest admiration for people who read music and understand the technical side of it.


peace

Tal Rules

Just pokn' a little fun Mike..