Time to upgrade Bass guitar and amp.
OK, been saying my hard earned pennies from our gigs and now it is time I upgraded to a better bass guitar and amp. I'm looking for some good advice from you guys. Here is my situation. Need a good bass guitar and bass amp for a working bar cover band. We are playing music like the Rolling Stones, ACDC, Billy Joel, Cream, Iron Butterfly, Tom Petty, David Bowie, Three Doors Down.... Budget is about $1000 for BOTH bass and amp. Is it possible? I don't want to spend too much $$$ on the bass guitar as we often host open mic nights and I let others play my bass. So, I don't want to show up with a $2000 bass - even if I could afford it. I'd rather put more money into the bass amp.
Current setup is an old Kramer 4 string bass guitar and a Rogue 120 watt 1X15 bass amp. Most of the sound goes through the PA system, but my bass sounds more like a heavy guitar than a bass. Need something with more sustain and rich deep tones which I cannot get with my current setup. Need more thump. I'm not originally a bass player, and I don't know much about bass sound, except that I don't have it and I really need an upgrade.
I live in a small town and the nearest Guitar Center is about 5 hours away, so I pretty much have to buy online. Anyway, if you guys could throw out a few suggestions for me to consider, or things to stay away from, I'd appreciate your time. I'm starting to play like a real bass player, so it's about time I sound like a real bassist too. Thanks in advance.
Current setup is an old Kramer 4 string bass guitar and a Rogue 120 watt 1X15 bass amp. Most of the sound goes through the PA system, but my bass sounds more like a heavy guitar than a bass. Need something with more sustain and rich deep tones which I cannot get with my current setup. Need more thump. I'm not originally a bass player, and I don't know much about bass sound, except that I don't have it and I really need an upgrade.
I live in a small town and the nearest Guitar Center is about 5 hours away, so I pretty much have to buy online. Anyway, if you guys could throw out a few suggestions for me to consider, or things to stay away from, I'd appreciate your time. I'm starting to play like a real bass player, so it's about time I sound like a real bassist too. Thanks in advance.
Comments
So. Here's my nickel's worth:
I definitely agree that your bass is the weak link. Time for an upgrade. The good news is you can get a pretty good bass for way under what your budget is. I have a Peavey Grind BXP and a Peavey Cirrus. The Grind can be had used for about $300, the Cirrus is more like $600. They're both killer planks. And a good ax sounds great whether you're live or recording.
If I were asked, I'd say a Rogue amp is a weak link also, even with some decent power and a 15\". I mean, c'mon. It's a Rogue.
If you have to stick with a combo under 4-5 bills, I'd say go with a high-end Behinger or a Peavey. Good bang for the buck. And, of course, there's always ebay, though buying an amp that way is tough 'cuz of the shipping costs.
If you can, you might wanna look into a Behringer head (also good bang-for-buck) and cab - or do what I did, which is get a really nice head and get your cabs from ebay, I got a 2x10\" and a 1x15\" from a seller called Seismic Audio, I like 'em real well. Avoid a seller called Mosh Audio - I bought theirs and they were pretty cheap; I gave 'em to a novice player.
Hope that helps - good luck and jam on!!
I have been looking at the Behringer Bass amp products because they seem to be highly rated by the owners. I am thinking of the Behringer Ultrabass BB410 1200 Watt 4X10 Bass Cab ($299) and the Behringer BX4500H Ultrabass Head ($229) to go with it. Just don't know if anyone can give me a good honest review of the quality of Behringer Bass amps as compared to Ampeg, G-K, Hartke, Fender, Peavey, etc... I'm not a name brand junkie, but if I do upgrade, I don't want to waste my money. Anyway, MF reviews on the Behringer bass amp products are positive and I personally have had great luck with other Behringer products. But then, I am playing with a 15\" 120 watt Rogue which was good enough for the past year gigging almost every weekend. For the money, it was a great deal. But it's time to upgrade. I feel the need....
My old Kramer bass has also served me well, but it is time to retire that ax. I looked at your Peavey Grind Bass and the 4 string is selling for $379 and the 5 string for $399. Any suggestions of 4 string/5 string. For $20, I'm inclined to go for the 5 string - even though I'm barely competent on a 4 string. Saw your review on MF by the way. The Grind has great reviews. My only question, is it a drawback to getting a passive bass like the Grind when you can get active basses for about the same price? As you know, I'm not really a bass player, so I wonder if there is much of a difference between passive and active basses.
Thanks for the suggestions. Hope some other guys can offer some good advice. The products you suggested are right in the ballpark, thanks. Although I want to upgrade, and I have saved money from the gigs, I still don't want to spend a fortune on gear for bar gigs. I need solid working gear but not top line ($$$) products. And I'm not GASy either, just need better working tools.
Good Luck!
JV
http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ibanez-GSR200FM-4String-Bass-Guitar?sku=515059
Great bass amp for most gigging needs
http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/GallienKrueger-Backline-600-Bass-Head?sku=482534
http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/GallienKrueger-410BLXII-4-x-10-Bass-Cabinet?sku=601054
One of the best cabs
http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ampeg-SVT410HLF-Classic-Series-Bass-Cabinet?sku=603065
Seen quite a few of these:
http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/GallienKrueger-Goldline-500-Bass-Head-and-4x10-Bass-Cabinet-Package?sku=483504
Another popular choice:
http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/GallienKrueger-Goldline-500-Bass-Head-and-4x10-Bass-Cabinet-Package?sku=483504
And..
http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/GallienKrueger-410BLXII-4-x-10-Bass-Cabinet?sku=601054
I did like that Ibanez GSR200FM with active electronics for $239.00. It seems that the owners really like that bass too. Again, I am wondering if active electronics are better than passive. Or does it really depend on the bass guitar itself. I would be inclined to think that active electronics would win over passive, but I don't know.
The least expensive Fender P Bass I saw was $649.00, but the Squire models are about $249.00. The pictures I saw on the Fender P bass did not look like it would fit the image of our band. But the Squire had a good looking Black Metalic finish that looked Rock and Roll to me. I know you buy a guitar for the sound, but on stage, you also have to be aware of the looks and to me, the Fender P basses I saw looked like country guitars. Also, I wonder if their is any great difference between a true Fender Bass and the Squire by Fender Bass? I have an Epi Les Paul Custom which is great and cannot imagine a Gibson Les Paul Custom costing almost $3000 more. But since I cannot afford a true Gibson, I guess I'll never know. Maybe it's better that way. Anyway, I thought the Black Metallic Squire P Bass looked great and it had some very positive reviews.
Back to my nickel's worth:
Basses: Being an Ibanez junkie, I've owned a GSR200. And while it's a good bass - serviceable to be sure - to me, it's an \"entry level\" bass. For the bux, you can surely do better. I'd MUCH sooner spend $300+ for a Grind than $200+ on a GSR.
I recommend against Fender, not 'cuz they're not great basses, but 'cuz the bang/buck ratio is not good. And I suspect you'd be unhappy with a Squier or an Epiphone - they're not the \"real thing\". And, as we all know, they skimp on the important things (woods, pups, tuners/bridges, yada) to bring the cost down.
And yes, an Alembic bass rules all, but only if you have 3 grand to spend on it. If money wasn't an issue, I'd be playing a Taylor with Shania rubbing my feet. :roll:
4 v. 5-string: my personal taste is a good 'ol 4 string. 5 or even 6-strings are good for guys who're into less conventional playing styles or need extended range for a particular reason. But for straight-up RnR, I think a 4-string is just fine. K/I/S/S. You can always buy a drop-D tuner if you have to have it.
Passive v Active: this is an area that falls to your own ear's judgement. Speaking for myself: my Peavey Grind has passive humbuckers, and they sound great. The Cirrus has fully active electronics, and they sound great. Since I'm not in a working band like you are and don't often play at blazing volume levels, I'm not sure if there's pros or cons involved for that use. If you can get active in your price range, it'd probably be worth the extra $, but again, my inclination is to K/I/S/S.
But above all, I recommend getting the coolest looking bass you can, so hott groupies will flock to you and you can set me up with them. :twisted:
Electronics: I also have several Behringer products and find them to be reliable, good performers, and a good value. And I think reading reviews (go to Harmony Central too) is a good idea. It doesn't do you any good for you to read some 15-year-old's rant about \"this is the best amp ever!!\" (it might be, compared to the 12-watt Crate he started with!); but many write specifically what they do or don't like. Harmony Central reviews are very good about that, as they ask specific ?'s.
That said; most Behringer equipment is well reviewed, usually 'cuz it's solid, reliable, and a good value. You can hardly go wrong. On the other hand, g has some good points: the GK stuff seems to be well liked, and Ampeg is great, even though both are a bit pricier than Behringer. I like GK's heads better than their cabs.
Of course, the cab has a lot to do with your sound...it's not all about watts/ch. If you have to choose between sinking bux into your head or your cab, put it in the cab. Check out Seismic Audio on ebay, I have their cabs and I like 'em. But the Behringers are a great deal too.
Behringer is not bad at all, there are always more reviews on budget gear since there are more owners. That could also weigh in to neg reviews. From a service standpoint and overall sound projection for ROCK, Ampeg is a winner in bass category. Then GK, etc. Others are decent but drivers and cabs are going to be your biggest asset. Behringer cabs are ok, but the drivers are questionable in many cases and pale to compare in projection with a GK or Ampeg. SWR combo's are also common among players.
Our bassist has an Ampeg SVT and 6x10 cab and can blow the doors out of any venue. The difference with most bass amps is how they deliver the punch needed for the pocket. Another group I am in, the bassist has a Warwick combo and just with his style of play, the pocket falls apart. He was watching a video of their performance and blaming things on the camera. We said the audio was right off the board. IOW, the difference is to some...subtle but depending on the player, the amp punch has to be observed. Some amps power supplies are much less efficient. This lack of efficiency can cause sort of a ghost note, or late recovery of the power supply. It's very noticeable on lower tuning scales or 5 string, 6 string players. That's why heavier groups go Ampeg, EBS, etc.
Just one of the things to compare. Change your playing attack and notice the recovery of the amp at big vol. Does it instantly snap and deliver a hard attack one after another, or does it sound like it's being compressed? That compression is like a auto limiter and in many cases, engineered since the lower spec power supply sags and does not recover well by comparison. Playing short staccato bursts followed by an open low note is a good way to determine the efficiency. Not as much as audible, but how much the cab can move the air with the same efficiency.
Another way to achieve better response is to swap the driver. The cabs may be fine, but less efficient drivers cannot make up the losses, and can cause inefficiencies of the power amp and power supply. OTOH, I know guys swapping drivers in other cabs to find that now the cab rattles or makes a boomy sound. Usually that is because the internal cab bracing elements are not as refined as say an Ampeg. Baffle boards on Ampeg, EBS and other cabs are 3/4\" to 15/16\" and can handle the low freq abuse. Some rigs have front loaded drivers, some have rear loaded. Some better cabs route the speaker mounting circumference, and insulate the cab from metallic frame vibration using that tar-ish looking sealant. Air leaks are at a minimum this way.
The differences you will find in a higher end amp versus a budget amp are in many areas. The preamps are pretty simple stages and commonality is evident with each. Where it is not evident are in the makeup of few things... the power supply stability, efficiency and quality components used. I've swapped power supply caps from Chinese forms to higher quality Mallory and there is a phenomenal difference in efficiency. In both the rails for the low voltage preamps, and the high voltage caps for the power stages. Those caps are not cheap, but are a prime difference in the type of gear. Second are the toroid transformers. The last difference is in the connectors. Most of the higher quality gear use highest quality I/O connectors in XLR and 1/4\" jacks (Neutrik, Cliff, etc). Many are hand soldered versus wave soldered and are reinforced on the standoff's to provide greater stability.
Recent designs are subjected to neg reviews due to one BIG THING. ROHS Compliant solder. That new solder is not near as strong as old stuff. Parts like caps and other weighted components, line jacks subject to the weight of an instrument cable can break that pad connection much sooner than expected. I've had many amps in for service with Filter caps bouncing around on the inside. The vibrated completely off their solder point and mounting. To remedy, you reinforce the component with silicon around the shell, scrape the board contact to make a more secure contact point and resolder the part in place. I've seen this in PEAVEY, BEHR, PHONIC, MACKIE, WARWICK, B52, GK, etc so they are all affected by new mfg forms and regulations on lead based product and even copper etchings are getting the boot. Some use silver which is a better conductor anyway, but more expensive.
There are many things that contribute to build quality, endurance and performance issues. The questionable basis of reviews is also limited to users, Some take great care, others beat their gear up, toss in a backseat or trunk. Those bumps move parts and can cause them to fail prematurely. Other designs it's just the nature of the beast. Low freq rattles and shakes the bajeezuz out of bass amp heads and bass combos. Over time, expect some connection faults if cranking those heads out OR...... don't mount the head on the cabinet.
I told one guy who didn't believe it... put a glass of water on your amp cab. Crank it up and watch that water move. Your amp parts are under the same sonic pressures and vibration constantly, not to mention transporting gear and vibration. Most higher end heads consider these things and reinforce components using better mounting methods of transformers, caps, mosfets, and high power resistors, I/O connectors, etc. IOW, you get what you pay for. Mileage always varies. Part based on the user, the elements, and part on the quality of the gear itself.
That's the kind of honesty I would prefer to hear in reviews of guitars. Often times a better guitar/gear is going to cost another $100+, but it's probably worth it in terms of sound, reliablity, quality, etc... Like I said, the nearest Guitar Center is 5 hours drive away, so I don't get to compare this gear myself and I'll be ordering via the internet. I'm still looking at all my options. At this point, I'm adding up different combo of bass guitar and amps to see what the cost will be. If I go over budget, than I'll just work on putting some extra money aside and wait to get what I really want/need for my upgrade.
At this point in my life/experience level, I need gear beyond a beginner's level but I'm certainly not to the point of buying top line gear to play in the local bars. I don't know if there is something like a working musician's level, but I need good gear that will hold up to weekend gigging and traveling.
I'll have to check out the reviews at Harmony Central about the bass guitar amps. I am still somewhat perplexed by the owners of G-K bass amps rating their purchase lower then owners of the Behringer gear. Still, isn't Harmony Central another user/owner review site? Is there such a thing as a professional neutral review site out there where they are not trying to sell you something? It would be great to read comparison reviews from professionals who are objective about the gear. I find that sites that sell gear tend to promote their latest gear on their list to push. Salesmen seem to always suggest whatever product gives them the best commission. And owners usually are telling you how great their purchase of their new gear was and how smart they are for having bought it (I fall into the later category).
I do hope other people here on the forum have an opinion that they would like to share. As it is, I am leaning towards the Behringer Ultrabass BB410 cab and Behringer BX4500H Ultrabass Head which would come in at < $550 for the set. I honestly can't see me needing more than 450 watts of bass, but if I needed more thump, the cab is rated at 1200 watts and I guess I could upgrade the head later if we start playing stadiums (not likely)! As for the bass guitar, the Peavey Grind is getting excellent reviews and I am leaning towards that. I just haven't decided if I should go 4/5 string. I am to the point where I am just barely competent on a 4 string, but if I continue to improve, I may be able to figure 5 strings in another year or two. After gigging almost every weekend for a year, I am to the level where I don't suck, honestly, and I also realize that I have outgrown my entry level bass gear (never thought I would playing bass this long!). Either way, 4/5 string Peavey Grind with the Behringer set, I would still come in at, or under, my $1000 budget.
By the way, I drive a $500 van. How sad is that? My wife has a better car, but as long as I can make it to the gig with the gear in the back - I'm good to go. I'm willing to spend more on my music gear than my car....feel free to comment on my misguided priorities. At least I have had good support at home. You gotta love a woman who just smiles (usually) when you spend your money on gear for the band and doesn't much complain when you get home at 4 or 5 am after the out of town gigs. Hope Shredd can find a woman like that. I think my wife is hott, Shredd, but it is in the way she supports me and my time with the band. That's hott.
It's not just about WATTAGE, it's about efficiency. You can have 1200 watts (most of these type specs are not measured in RMS) with 75% efficiency and it's not close to comparable to an amp cab rig with 250 watts rms and greater efficiency. IOW, a more efficient amp can deliver the air (db's) SPL at 50W much more than a less efficient rig at 10x the operating power. This is why you see 300W and even lower wattage versions of more efficient amps/cabs.
Noticing your other post, you might consider changes to improve your PA handling more than a bass amp. You have subs, you just need a better way to get that versatility from the PA. In any regard, a good bass amp will be be able to be heard and felt great distances from the stage. So in some cases, you may not ever need to add bass in your PA mix. Depends on venues.
You can find some of that equipment on CL etc cheaper than retail. Oddly enough, the recent changes in mfg have led many players jumping on used gear.
Most of the GK heads are well within range of budget. GK Backline is considered budget of the GK gear. AMPEG, is another story. But is a standard. Especially their cabs. Just look at most bands... if you want db's, they usually go Ampeg. Even the Ampeg combos are impressive and can compete well in any situation. They move the air well.
Like always, it's best to shop around and see what suits your budget, your level of play etc.
The ampeg cab ($799) you mentioned (with matching head at $1299) would be about $2100, which is out of my budget. So I gotta throw that one out. It may be industry standard, but I'm really not at that level - in skill or pay. So I am looking for something to grow into, but I don't ever see myself in need of a professional rig like that. Appreciate all the good advice.
\"Objective reviews\"? get serious. Every one of those guys was paid to write their review. That's why I put my faith in USER reviews.
While the Behr'r setup is not in the league of an Ampeg or Ashdown or Genz-Benz setup, it's also not in that PRICE RANGE. I really think that from what you've described your band doing, the Behr'r will serve you well, and just as importantly, you can afford it. I'd never discourage you from saving up for an Ampeg, but only you can decide if it's worth it to.
What I would encourage is the Peavey Grind. It's a great ax, worth way more than it's price, and is universally approved of by everyone who owns it. I'd sell you mine (I have a Cirrus too, the next up in the line) if I didn't love it so much. Not that I NEED two basses... :oops: (G/A/S sux...)
As far as getting a 5-string...here's how I really feel about it. \"Superfluous\". There may come a day when you'd want it; but until then, you're wearing a heavier instrument, playing \"around\" the extra string, restringing with strings that cost twice as much, and using the extra string once every two months.
The thing is: if you find you DO want a 5-string, I guarantee you they'll be available, and you could sell your 4 and trade up for a fraction of what a 5 would cost now.
I did find it amusing about your van, and spending your $ on music gear (which will make you happier and serve more of a purpose) instead of the wheels.
Even cooler is the fact that your wife is behind it (surely for no other reason than she knows it makes you happy). That IS hott.
Shoot, I'd settle for a woman that actually liked me. :roll:
I've never been drawn to GK gear because of it's ratings by users. Not that it would over-ride your own ear-test, but since you don't have that option (GC 5 hours away), you have to go on other criteria.
But you are talking about moving air with good tone, so a combo - even a decent Ampeg combo - might not be enough for a bar/club. One route you might look into is larger combos - say THIS:
http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ashdown-MAG-C410T300-Combo-Bass-Amp?sku=485034
or THIS:
http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-Ultrabass-BX4410A-450W-4x10-Combo?sku=600730
Although...if I were me, I'd pass on aluminum-cone speakers in favor of fabric...
Also FWIW: I have Ashdown BlueLine's in my Seimic Audio cabs (2x10 & 1x15), and I think they sound killer. Then again, NO ONE thinks I sound better than me. I can't even get my own family to listen to my stuff. :?
I compared the reviews for the BA410 (aluminum) bass cab with the BB410 (fabric). The owners seem to prefer the BB410 more than the BA410 owners. I guess fabric wins in their reviews.
The thing that bothers me about the G-K sets I am looking at is that the owners don't seem very happy about their purchase. That's a red flag for me. When I see comments like \"It's OK for the price\", I read into it that they really wish they either had saved money for a more expensive unit or that they feel they could have bought a less expensive unit for the same (or better) sound. At any rate, the owner reviews on the G-K sets I am looking at bother me. And let's face it, anything I buy at this level is going to be better than my 120 watt Rogue bass amp which has served me well to this point. I made alot (relatively) of gigging money with that inexpensive Rogue amp.
Another version ( just a cab to make a comparison) :
http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/GallienKrueger-410RBX-4x10-Bass-Cabinet?sku=601507
Now- look at the specs:
# Impedance: 8 ohms
( other cabs rated at 2, 4 ohms usually)
# Power Handling (RMS/Program): 800W/1600W
(RMS IS GIVEN) That is the true power handling of that cab and 800W RMS is INTENSE compared to 800 W PEAK , Nominal, Music Power, Program power and other naming conventions for power ratings.
# Sensitivity: 99 dB ***** KEY FACTOR aka EFFICIENCY
# Maximum SPL: 128 dB ***** KEY FACTOR= how much power from the amp can efficiently be handled by the speakers/cab- 128 db is HUGE... you won't have to play as loud to get the bass cutting and your pocket dynamics are not going to be an issue.
# Frequency Response (-3dB): 54 Hz to 19 kHz
When comparing products, as you are looking to improve your sound.. not the power. You want to improve efficiency, and make a better jump in SPL spec which basically describes the cabs ability to handle HIGH SPL from the given amp.
Then there's Hartke, not a MF retail but check those out
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-HAR-VX3500-LIST
choose a head to go with this:
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-HAR-VX410-LIST
or THIS, if going Behringer
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-BB410-LIST
ONE THING to look at- Some of these HF drivers are Piezo, and some are Compression type.. the latter are considered performance drivers by comparison.
again, review the spec, this cab is not going to have the ratings of the GK, but 99 is good, given the economy price of this cab.
Certain bass amps, like guitar amps, can fit a certain style better than others. Opinions and reviews are going to vary as well. Someone playing a 6 string bass in a metal band may notice bass efficiency factors of the cab and amp much more than someone playing in Standard A with a 4 string. The lower notes and power requirements are not there.
You need to be weary of things when users are saying \"my bass won't work well with this Behr or Ashdown amp yada yada. If they play in the lowest tuning settings like some modern rock and metal, death metal bands, it's probably going to get BASHED in reviews and the guy will say \"I finally bought my Ampeg\" But then a guy in a Classic Rock or other band might find the simplest of amps better suited for them.
Just look at the 2 main specs for your needs. Better spec'd amps will benefit you in many ways. More efficient systems deliver note clarity and performance, move the air greater than lesser spec'd or falsely spec'd units. Better efficiency means it requires LESS POWER to operate than another amp of greater power and less efficiency. Most of which you won't notice until you are at STAGE vol's.
So, again, certain amps are designed for certain things. You won't play a 6x10 at 5 watts. Instead, you'll have a simple combo for that. It's more efficient. But will a 2x10 x combo have a breathing prayer against a 6x10 at the same power but with near twice the efficiency? No way, not ever, never going to happen. The physical nature of the beasts are altogether different animals. The bassist in our band (5 and 6 string player) had an Ampeg 8x10 that was OVERKILL for any basic gig. He could barely run the amp on 1 or 2 without shaking walls of any small venue. So he got a 6x10
My other question to you is you may simply benefit from using those subwoofers and not having to deal with the expense in upgrading your bass amp if you are using a PRE out signal anyway.....
Yeah, two threads are kind of crossing over for me on this topic. Had not planned it that way, but it happens. Anyway, I do need a better bass guitar. So I am still looking at those suggestions. As far as the bass amp, I think I'll try to talk the guys into upgrading our PA equipment first to see if that works. Upgrading our PA would make everyone sound better, so I like that option even better than me just getting a bass amp. I don't have a problem with using my existing 120 watt Rogue bass amp as my stage monitor and taking the XLR out from the GNX4 to the mixer for the band's sound. Right now, we have some issues with power and crossovers, but I think all that can be worked out. So, perhaps after the PA upgrade, I will rethink my idea of a new bass amp depending on any improvements on our sound. Personally, with the GNX4, I was hoping that I would not need a big bass amp on stage. Our goal for the band is to have minimal levels on stage to save our ears and send the sound out front in the mains and subs. I only need it loud enough on stage for me to hear the music. I don't need it blasting in my ears.
OK, took the advice to upgrade the PA system first. Did not buy a seperate bass amp at this time. Hope that strategy helps with improving everyone's sound in the band. If not, seriously looking at the Behringer 450 watt head and BB410 cab for around $550.
As far as the new bass goes, I checked out the Peavey Grind that Shredd is advocating. Really nice bass, feels great, sounds great. The local guitar shop only has 5 bass guitars (small town), but one was actually the Peavey Grind. Anyway, took in my current bass guitar to compare with the Peavey Grind. The Grind is infinitely more playable as the action on my current bass is really high. Both the Grind and my Kramer have passive pickups. The Grind's sound was was warmer, fuller, and had more sustain, as I expected. However, I did not really feel there was hugh difference between the sound of the Grind and my old Kramer, at least not so much that I could not eq the difference and fake it.
I also compared the basses with an active pickup bass by Ibanez. That was a completely different sound and it was obvious to me, for what we are playing, that active pickups on the bass are the way to go. It just had much more punch and tonal control than the Grind or my old Kramer with their passive pickups. So, I guess I will be concentrating more on active basses. Don't know if that is right or wrong, but the sound of the active pickups was more what I was looking for in a bass. The Ibanez was just a little more money than the Grind. But the sound was completely different.
Well, just about any bass will be an improvement over my old Kramer in terms of playability. But the active bass sound was an eye opener when I compared it side by side with the passive basses. For what we play, I think the active bass will be the way to go.
Sidenote: MF has a sale on Tambourines http://drums-percussion.musiciansfriend.com/product/Pulse-Pro-Tambourine?sku=440436 for only $7.99. I currently have 2 of these tambourines to give out to the girls who want to dance and shake their groove thing at our gigs. They are an excellent deal at MF regular price of $9.99, but a steal at $7.99. These tambourines are built better than other tambourines I purchased at $20 or more. So, if you or your band needs tambourines, I don't think you can go wrong with these. Plus, chicks love to shake the tambourine and be part of the music..... Works for us.
just a thought.
The good news is that I played the crap out of that bass for almost a year of gigging every weekend. It was my starter bass and got me to this point. But, as I have improved, I now feel that bass is holding me back. I am now playing all over the fretboard but my old Kramer's action around the 12th fret is so high that I have trouble with my bass runs. It slows me down.
At least I have been good at saving my gig money to upgrade my bass. I never thought I'd be playing bass this long, so it's time I get a better guitar. I've outgrown other guitars before. You learn their limitations and it's time to move on. Feels good, in a way, to know that I should be moving up to a better instrument. I know I'll actually be able to play a better bass and get my money's worth out of it now. I would not be able to say that a year ago.
By the way, I talked to a former touring musician the other day. He spent 3 years on the road going from coast to coast playing guitar and bass in his band. They never made it big, obviously, but he doesn't regret giving it a good try. I asked him his opinion on bass guitars, and he said that there are alot of intermediate bass guitars that are all pretty much about the same, and none of them will compare to a $3000+ Music Man bass. But since you don't need a $3000 bass for bar gigs, there are a whole lot of guitars that fall into the \"good enough\" category. I just want to get a better working bass for our gigs. One that I can grow with.
I did take the advice on upgrading our PA system first, since most of my sound is out of the PA speakers/subwoofers. I bought a new amp for the PA (QSC GX5). Now I'm looking at 24 channel mixing boards and snakes because we might be hiring someone to run our sound out front. At any rate, I figure my money is better spent on making the whole band sound better rather than just buying a $$$ bass amp for myself.
By the way Shredd, went to the local guitar shop today and noticed that they dropped the price of the Peavy Grind down about $50.00. They probably should have done that before Christmas, but still they have it overpriced compared to the internet stores. Nice guitar, but for the music I wanted to play, the active pickups won out.
I've been looking for used gear, but around here there are not any deals jumping out at me. I'll have to check out craigslist. Currently, I'm looking at the new Behringer SX2442FX mixer which I asked about in another thread so I won't go into that again.
I really was ready to drop $400-800 dollars on a new bass guitar, but when I went to the music store and compared the guitars with my old Kramer bass, I was surprised on how little difference there was in the actual sound of the guitars. The active electronics made a big difference, but all the passive guitars playing through the same amp at the same volume sounded pretty much the same. So I decided to save my money and go after better PA gear. I got the Dean bass with active electronics which is much more playable than my old Kramer but that only set me back less than $150 using coupon codes and credits. So I still have money left to upgrade my PA system.
I don't know what you are doing in the amp department, but I know you like to build your own stuff like I do when you can and it is cost effective. I came across a site that I thought you and any other fellow DIYers might be keen on.
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/index.html
He has some very interesting folded horn designs and other various cabinet designs you can make yourself for a fraction of the cost of comparable pre-made cabs... IOW alot more bang for your buck.
Extremely informative site and he also sells plans for all his designs. COOL COOL COOL. I'm not a salesman for the company or anything, just thought it was something you could look into for your bass cab. Also check out his floor monitor designs... very efficient design...seriously thinking about building a couple of those wedges myself. I have to stand right in front of mine to hear anything out of them...I knew there had to something better...
Anyway just some food for thought...
[/url]
The Dean is much more guitar than I thought it would be and it plays much better than my old Kramer. The big difference, IMHO, is the active electronics. It's crazy you can get a bass like the Dean built with active electronics and the quality it has for so little. I have not been playing bass long enough to have changed out strings on my guitars, so I really don't know how much, or how little, different strings can make on the sound. But I'll take your advice if/when I do change out the strings.
Most of my bass sound is directly out of the mains/subwoofers, so my stage amp is used just for my personal monitor. For the time being, I have decided to upgrade my PA power amps and just recently bought a new 32 channel mixer for the band. I think my money put there will help the whole band whereas the bass amp would only have improved my sound. If I still need something extra later, I'll start looking at bass amps again. But, more and more, I see many players going direct into the PA system for their sound. So I am trying that first, too.
I was just talking to another bass player about bass amps last night. He was telling me about a folded horn design he used to have that he really liked. Funny how you should mention that today. Thanks for the comments.
After playing bass for 3 years in a gigging band, I decided that I might actually want a decent bass amp after all. Currently, I am using my GNX4 and sending the main signal to the house mixer. So most of my sound comes out of the FOH mains. I have a little 120 watt bass amp on stage as my monitor. But hey, the sound from the GNX4 has always been great.
Although my heart is for getting an Ampeg head with an 8X10 cab, I know that we never play venues that big, I'd have to buy a cargo van to haul the 8X10 cab in with all my other gear, and I just don't have $2000.00 for the combo to spare right now.
There are now hundreds of reviews on the Behringer head and cab and the set is very highly rated by users. Hope it turns out to be a good working rig for me. I ordered the gear through AMS (price matched MF with coupon) to take advantage of the free 1 year extended warranty.
I was listening to the multi-track recording from our latest gig, paying special attention to my bass playing, and thought to myself that I don't suck too bad. And although I still consider myself a beginner at only 3 years, I think I've progressed enough that I don't have to feel guilty about spending some money on myself.
Well, that and this 4th of July weekend I saw a band from the cities where the bass player was no better than me, and in fact, on songs that both our bands cover, I honestly felt I play better than he did. But he had a nice Ampeg stack with a big 8X10 on stage. Looked really good. Sounded good until he blew the head at the end of the night. A few years ago every bassist I heard was better than me. To be sure, I know the bassists around here that are better than me, but I also know there are lots of guys not at my level. So I was ready to reinvest some money into my bass system. Even started looking around for a bass guitar teacher, which we don't have any locally. But I'm enjoying this whole second career playing bass much more than I thought I would.
On the Behringer topic...some of their gear is really good. I'm still using the B3031 Truth monitors in my studio as well as the B2 Pro condenser mic. The only piece of Behringer gear I've ever had an issue with was an HA4700 headphone distribution amp that developed a low level hum after a couple of years. I ended up having to replace it. A guitarist buddy of mine uses a Behringer 2x12 modeling amp, and gets some killer tones out of it. If their bass rigs are anything like the other B'ger gear I've tried, it'll probably deliver some serious thunder.
I guess I have a bit of a different philosophy regarding when to buy gear for an endeavor. I spent too many years with \"less-than-stellar\" gear back in my early days trying to find a band, only to be turned down because my little 2x12 Crate combo + pedals (Tube Screamer, Boss delay, Boss chorus, MXR phase, etc) wasn't good enough for the bands I was auditioning for. Let's completely ignore the fact that I dominated the auditions with my playing, but the shallow nature of the hair-metal-heads back then (you know the type...the ones who use to think a wall of Marshall's is what made you sound good
Thanks to a well established career in the IT biz, these days I remove gear excuses from the equation when I'm looking for a new gig/project. When I switched to bass last month I went all-in. That said, I shopped around and found great deals on used gear, and recycled some stuff from one of my guitar rigs that I hadn't really used. Even the cabs were floor models from GC, so combined with other seasonal discounts I got the entire thing for pretty cheap, relatively speaking. Most other items were found on craigslist, eBay, or local pawn shops.
\"In for a penny, in for a pound\" I say.
Furman PL+C
Samson Concert IV wireless
Line 6 Pod XT Pro (upgraded with all model packs including bass) w/FBV shortboard
BBE 482i
Gallien-Kreuger 700RB-II
Gallien-Kreuger NEO 115
Gallien-Kreuger NEO 410
Ibanez SR-706
The irony...one of the guitarist in the band I play bass for now was using a Fender 1x12 + Tube Screamer for his amp setup, and a $2k+ semi-hollow Taylor guitar. The other guy was using a 20+ year old Crate half stack that sounded like ass.
Having \"been there, done that\" I was able to look past their gear issues and see the caliber of players they were. I was glad when they offered me the gig. These guys are better on guitar than me, so...yeh. I consider myself lucky to have found them.
I've since loaned them each a Marshall 1960 4x12 (G12 75's) and a Line 6 head (HD100 & HD147). We're all pretty set on gear, so now it's up to us to deliver well played, crowd pleasing music.
And I'm with you on the \"second career as a bass player\" thing. I'd rather be in a band playing bass and making good music than not playing at all. At this stage in my life it's more about good music than it is ego-stroking. If I were younger and still single I might have held out for a guitar gig somewhere, but these days I just want to play good music with a good group of guys and have fun, and we're doing that.
Oh, and to keep this post on topic (it IS a Digitech forum after all), I still use a GNX3 and GNX3000 for recording.
It's the same thing for guitars. The local pawn shops want $100 more for a beat up used guitar than what you can order the same thing brand new from MF. Kid you not.
The only used gear I have been able to get a good deal on has been directly from some musicians I know that are upgrading their equipment and buying online from MF, or AMS, etc... At least they know the value of the new equipment online and therefore don't try to blow smoke on the value of their used gear. Too many of the guys around here bought their gear years ago, pre-internet, and paid high retail prices. So they think their gear is still worth lots of money. But it isn't.
I like your GK rig. I was considering the GK rigs, but the only one in my budget was the Goldline series and they have been getting mixed reviews from users (see they are now being discontinued). The GK Goldline rig rates only 3.5 of 5 stars on MF. So I made a number of calls around and lots of younger musicians are buying more and more Behringer gear and having good luck. The Behringer bass amp/head receive 4.5/5 stars on MF and 5/5 on AMS. I don't know what this means if one compares the Behringer rig next to the GK Goldline rig, but at least I know the users are happier with their Behringer rigs.
I know what you mean about talent is not the only thing that gets you up on stage. Good gear, or good looking gear, is a plus. We have a good lead guitarist in our band, but his gear is really old and not that good. But he can't afford anything better. So I just mic his small amp and call it good. He's a great guy, plays terrific lead for us, and I just like having him in the band. If he had a Marshall stack behind him, it would both look better and sound better. But that's not an option for him right now. In my band, we were more interested in finding a good guy that we could work with, and one with some talent. His gear, or lack of, was the least of our concerns. But I do know some metal bands around here that first look for the big stage rigs, then a drinking partner, and if he can play guitar, that's just a bonus. (Don't mean to knock the metal heads, but that's the impression they create for themselves in my local area).
Since you are a born again bass guitar player, I am wondering if I should continue to use my GNX4 sending my XLR line output to the FOH mixer, or if I should try to just go to my new amp head and use that direct out? Currently I plan on keeping my GNX4 on the floor because it provides a built in backup for me in case my stage amp fails. At least I would have a completely separate line going to the main mixer. When I saw the bass player blow his Ampeg amp this past 4th of July weekend, he lost everything. With my setup, I could lose either my amp head or my GNX4 (but not both, of course) and still get through the night.
I've tried to have some sort of workable substitute rig on hand ever since my main (and only, at the time) power amp in my rack was blown by some really dirty power at an outdoor gig back in '91. That show was a complete bust. Modelers can really save yer bacon. Wish I'd had something like that to fall back on back then.
Just got my Behringer bass head and cab hooked up this morning, or should I say mourning? It sounded great for about 10 minutes and then the head amp blew up on me. Was not even pushing it very hard at the time. Now I get nothing but a constant hum from the cab. Something died in the head. Checked cords, fuses, bass guitars, etc... All OK. Bad head.
Sending the head unit back for replacement. Hope it was just a bad head that died quickly and not a problem with the head model itself. Seems that there are so many positive reviews, maybe I just got a lemon. Anyway, 45 day trial period so I'm going to give it one more try with a different head.
Really disappointed at the moment. First Behringer product that has failed on me, almost right out of the box. Don't know if I will ever trust the amp after this. Can't afford to be out playing and have the head amp blow out on me.
BTW, while checking out the fuse, I pulled the AC plug component and discovered that there was black electricians tape wrapped around the backside of the power plug. Looks like to me that unit may have been reworked before it shipped out. When I get the new replacement head, I think I'm going to pull the AC plug component and take a look at the build on that unit. If I don't get a good feel for the next head, everything is going back. The way I feel right now, it might all go back anyway. Bummer.....