Lead/Solo

BlackIbanezRG270DX

Ive been looking into playing lead guitar and want some tips on how to go about it.

Heres my philosophy on learning rhythm. i say skip excersises and scales and just play songs you like that are just barely out of your playing abilities to get better. youll learn all the basics and advanced techniques along the way. im wondering if this is the best method for lead playing as well. also the kind of leads im looking to get to are early megadeth solos that are far out of my league as of now.

heres the song the conjuring with a few good examples of the solos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDumh3dWKw4

my biggest problem is there isnt any slow solos to build up to the fast ones. to learn fast rhythm i would play slow rhythm and gradually choose faster songs but i cant do that with these solos. since they basically use blues/jazz for the solos does anyone know a good blues jazz solo to learn? or just any advice?

ednrg

You forgot to mention an important tool in playing rhythm as well as lead: METRONOME.

It will help you build your timing, which is paramount. I have a friend who plays guitar, but simply has ZERO timing. The lack of timing kills any chance of him playing with others and it sounding well. I once tried to help him record a song he was working on, and he couldn't lay down a single track because his timing was way off. We tried click tracks through headphones, loud drum tracks, etc. and nothing worked.

phatsack

I started the same way: learn your favorite songs and pick up techniques along the way. And it worked fine. Until I got to the solos. Sure, I learned some solos. But it was still hard as hell.
In my opinion (and what worked for me) a good way to learn lead is to practice scales :roll: Yeah, fun - I know. But if you learn the pentatonic scale and its' 5 modes, practice them until you don't have to think about what note comes next anymore, then start learning some of the \"easier\" sounding solos; you'll get the solos a lot quicker. Especially considering that most of your basic rock solos are based on that scale, or a variation of it.

After you learn that scale the other ones will come a lot quicker. Because the pentatonic is based on the major scale (7 tone) with 2 tones taken out, making it a five tone scale.

iliace

Learn some pentatonic patterns. I would start with simpler ones, such as Amin in 5th position, since that's easy to apply to any root (just move the fret).

Know the notes of your chords. Start improvising by using just those notes, then branch out to the pentatonics.

Next, learn the minor scale (I'm assuming you're talking about mostly rock/metal soloing). Do the same thing - you already know how to solo over just the chord tones, and then use the other notes as passing tones.

There's a bit of a learning curve, because you'll have to dissect each chord and figure out what notes go into it. Simple 12-bar blues is a good starting point, since there are only three chords to deal with.

Also, very important, at any stage, practice phrasing. A good exercise might be to use only the root and fifth of the chord, and apply different rhythms to them.

BlackIbanezRG270DX

thanks phatstack and ilace, i actually did learn the pentatonic scale a while back and \"made up\" another scale which im pretty sure is the harmonic scale. also timing is not an issue as i can record tracks pretty good with no metronome at all, a nessesity for someone who was too poor to have anything other than a guitar trying to teach himself. what i would like is a good song to learn the solo to. any sugestions? acdc? black sabbath? whats easy but chalenging

Cobaltblooz

ACDC...= Chuck Berry licks, add steroids

Sabbath, learn the Minor scale...then start throwing in the \"Flatted Fifth\" note here & there...and it's not all about learning scales, but exercising the fingers with a combo of hammer ons & pull offs, and then picking every note cleanly / and string skipping / double stops....then putting all of that together seamlessly

partch

\Cobaltblooz\ wrote:

ACDC...= Chuck Berry licks, add steroids

Sabbath, learn the Minor scale...then start throwing in the \"Flatted Fifth\" note here & there...and it's not all about learning scales, but exercising the fingers with a combo of hammer ons & pull offs, and then picking every note cleanly / and string skipping / double stops....then putting all of that together seamlessly

Hey Coabalts well said. I know pretty much all of what your saying in your advice to Black Ibanez man. BUT What exactly is a double stop? I've heard that kicked around before BUT have no clue what it is? Is that pretty common in Country? Just wondering?

phatsack

a double stop is just 2 strings played at the same time. not as complicated as it sounds huh?


cobaltblooz had it right when he said Black Sabbath. One of my favorite songs to play by them is Wicked World. The actual \"solo\" part is cool, but I only half play it and improvise over it. The reason why I think that song is cool though is the intro. It's got a cool little lead in the intro.

One thing about Sabbath though - Tony Iommi double tracks his solos, especially on that first album. Not only does he double track them, but when he does, the solos don't match exactly. So you get kind of a jumbled mess when you try to figure them out :roll: .....makes it easy to improvise over them though.

A real easy solo to learn is Man In The Box, by Alice in Chains. It's totally pentatonic with a few trills and some bends and , get this......a grand finale of double stops :shock: haha, no - its a fun solo to play and also one of the first ones I learned. Pretty much anything by Alice in Chains is going to be kind of easy and full of pentatonic scales.

Also Meat Puppets - Backwater. It starts out with a little pentatonic scale and builds on that during the actual solo section. Also a song with very cool tone to try to imitate. I'm pretty sure he uses a big muff.

The intro solo to Welcome Home (Sanitarium) by Metallica is a good intermediate one to learn. It starts out with some pentatonics, double stops, and eventually forces you to learn sweeps :shock:

Sublime - Santeria is another good one, kind of a weird style. But that's what makes someone elses solo hard - copping someone else's style.

Another thing about solos - as long as you learn the most memorable parts, you can improvise the rest and most people won't know the difference (this won't work on all solos though, considering that a lot of solos are totally memorable) A good example of a song that I do this on is Paranoid by Sabbath. I start out playing exactly what's on the album, but after a few bars I start to improv. And, as far as I can tell, nobody knows the difference.


EDIT: WOW! Wall of text :shock:

shredd

I always liked the Steve Vai solo from David Lee Roth's \"Just Like Paradise\". :oops:

iliace

\BlackIbanezRG270DX\ wrote:

thanks phatstack and ilace, i actually did learn the pentatonic scale a while back and \"made up\" another scale which im pretty sure is the harmonic scale. also timing is not an issue as i can record tracks pretty good with no metronome at all, a nessesity for someone who was too poor to have anything other than a guitar trying to teach himself. what i would like is a good song to learn the solo to. any sugestions? acdc? black sabbath? whats easy but chalenging

Just pick any song, use that chord progression, record it, loop it, and solo.

BlackIbanezRG270DX

ive learned a few metallica solos( ie sanitarium, only sounds good with the right presets though, also both master of puppets solos and the rest of the song) and i learned that first solo in the wizard by black sabbath. i do get turned off of learning his solos on the first albums since he will do two solos that weave in and out of each other and make it a mess at times. i do like the solo in behind the wall of sleep and intend on learning it. it still seems like a big jump to even go from the fast solo in master of puppets to a megadeth solo, my objective. i think its because its not only fast but very technical, knowing when to hammer on, pull off, and double pick. ive learned once i learn the notes i can easily play at tempo though. like you guys say, run through it once slow and then try and speed up. thats what i say anyways

jimiV

In my opinion (and what worked for me) a good way to learn lead is to practice scales Yeah, fun - I know. But if you learn the pentatonic scale and its' 5 modes, practice them until you don't have to think about what note comes next anymore, then start learning some of the \"easier\" sounding solos; you'll get the solos a lot quicker. Especially considering that most of your basic rock solos are based on that scale, or a variation of it.

Bingo, thats the road to glory....the next step, of course is to do it live with a band.

JV
[/quote]

Tal Rules

Helped my playing tremendously, as well as about 2,000 other players...

http://www.jimmybrunoguitarinstitute.com/public/main.cfm

Cobaltblooz

\Tal Rules\ wrote:

Helped my playing tremendously, as well as about 2,000 other players...

http://www.jimmybrunoguitarinstitute.com/public/main.cfm

Jesus H Christ TAL!!!...the man is into \"metal\"


(and very few people know that Jesus's middle name was \"HERBIE\")

Tal Rules

\Cobaltblooz\ wrote:

\Tal Rules\ wrote:

Helped my playing tremendously, as well as about 2,000 other players...

http://www.jimmybrunoguitarinstitute.com/public/main.cfm

Jesus H Christ TAL!!!...the man is into \"metal\"


(and very few people know that Jesus's middle name was \"HERBIE\")

I've found Jimmy's methods helpful in eliminating the holes in the fretboard. Has helped my blues and semi-chikn, pickn style as well as developed my jazz chops...

Yes...
Sweep picking, arpeggios, scales, chord changes taught....
Metal???? Hmmm...Could be...

BlackIbanezRG270DX

cant say i was put off by the fact that it wasnt metal but the first link i clicked was improv 1 and i see keys and modes and scales. as you should know im not big on learning lol. also im starting to get megadeth solos down now. didnt do anything or even practice but theyre coming along well now. guess im one of those undeserving people that are just blessed with quick learning.

judaskiss

BlackIbanez, just I'd throw my 2cents in. Someone told me a while back to learn scales and the lead will come. He was right, alot of my leads were in the scales that I learned. When I used to do scales I would practice them in a different pattern every time. Like Ace Frehley on end lead on \"Love Gun\", or starting in middle of a scale then coming back to beginning. I was a huge Judas Priest fan and I lerned alot of their songs when I was learning lead (well...your always learning). I found that \"Living after Midnight\" \"Metal Gods\" were some easy ones and fun to play.

I also used to record a simple ryhthm track and play lead to it over and over, which you could do a loop on GNX so it plays over.

These days there are also other tools that come in handy. \"Guitar World\" magazine has tabs to five songs a month to learn. Theres also a CD in each issue that teaches you different lead riffs. It will play them, then slow it down so that it is more understandable. I like \"betha can't play this\" that shows you note for note how to play the lick.

Oh and don't forget PATIENCE. I know i've wanted to smash a few guitars trying to learn lead, especially 24hrs before a gig.

iliace

\Tal Rules\ wrote:

Helped my playing tremendously, as well as about 2,000 other players...

http://www.jimmybrunoguitarinstitute.com/public/main.cfm

It is a helpful site, but you're also more ahead of the game than most people.

BlackIbanezRG270DX

judaskiss, id say you gave the best advice for me personally and i think ill learn the trooper solo( the one without a tremolo) and chek out the ones you listed. its definately a great starting point and thats what i needed, thanks

Rawb

\judaskiss\ wrote:

Someone told me a while back to learn scales and the lead will come. I would practice them in a different pattern every time. starting in middle of a scale then coming back to beginning.
Oh and don't forget PATIENCE. .

Are you talking about box patterns or extended scale runs up/down the fret board? Or both?
For me. I learn some things and can absolutely see where it fits a box or extended run. But other/most stuff LoL I just shake my head and wonder where the..... they came up with that! ie combining scales and modes.

judaskiss

Rawb, first you'll have to tell me how to do the \"Rawb wrote:\" option, can't figure that out.

Anyway, you have to keep in mind, I'm self-taught so I don't know theory, can't read music(not enough to say I can), and sometimes tabs even confuse me--which I think alot of them are wrong anyway.

I think I am correct that what you mean by a box--is a scale that is done without moving your hand down the neck. If so, that is what I was talking about, but basically scales--to me--are made to go up and down the neck as well. Plus, if you know how to harmonize up and down the neck that--to me--is where lead comes from. Hope I'm making sense. Also, when your trying to figure out leads from someone else, its sometimes very difficult because of different effects. Eddie Van Halen does a track on \"Diver Down\" album called Cathedral, not only can I not figure how he is picking(or not)but what effects he using. Anyway, sorry to get off track--sometimes I ramble.

What I do, and I think alot of guitarists do as well, is just play lead to a ryhthm numerous times, making the mistakes, and sour notes untill....whalah...a solo. You also said, sometimes you wonder where they came up with that. How many time have you pulled out an old recording of yourself and say...is that me..what the...did I do there.

As long as you are in key with what you are playing lead to, it won't matter if you are doing scales or modes (or theory lol)it should blend.

BLACKIBANEZ-oh yes Trooper by Iron Maiden definitley one of my favorites from the past as well, along with 22 Acaia Avenue and 2 miutes to midnight. Sometimes it hard for me to put into words, when people ask, how to play lead guitar, so do hope those things do help. One other thing I've noticed that might help in the frutration of learning certain songs is, not only do I try not to practice one song too many hours, but I find when I come back to it the next day, it seems to be easier. I know, thats weird--try it though.

Tal Rules

To me, music is like learning a foreign language...

You have to know the words...(Scales and Arps) to create sentences...
I see a lot of guys get mixed up in the words...(Those scales, arps, chords) and forget the most important thing...

MAKE MUSIC!!!

Once you learn the vocabulary, then it's up to the individual player to let his own voice come shining through...

All right...
Enough of the lotus position today...LOL..

BlackIbanezRG270DX

ive been practicing here and there (i know its cocky and arrogent but i feel like im at a point where i dont need to practice anymore even though i could be alot better) and i turn on songs and play the verse half what the rhythm does and then play solos over the other half. ive gotten to the point where i can solo and make it go perfectly with the song. i figured out its only important to start and end on the right notes. getting to them is pretty easy and throwing in some techniques will have you sound like a pro. i know its not conventional but hey, if you can sound like you know what your doing its just as good as actually knowing. like ive always said, id rather be lucky than good. but to others i wouldnt skip learning scales and notes because im sure its gonna bite me in the end.

iliace

\BlackIbanezRG270DX\ wrote:

i figured out its only important to start and end on the right notes. getting to them is pretty easy and throwing in some techniques will have you sound like a pro. i know its not conventional but hey, if you can sound like you know what your doing its just as good as actually knowing.

You are right, starting and ending notes are important, for phrases at least. Knowing the key and corresponding scale(s). That said, I sound like I know what I'm doing, and let me tell you - it's not quite as good as actually knowing!

zoopanoobin

playing.
Rhythm playing can be learned with less focus on technical matters .
To learn lead (and rhythm) it is almost essential to know scales and to do finger exercises.
No one can ever go wrong by learning the techniques of a skill. It may seem boring and tedious but you will regret it in the future if you do not.
Those who get bored easily should just stick to playing the little game of \"Guitar Hero' or Guitar Zero as it is know to those who can actually play guitar.

Seriously though, what seems boring and tedious will leave you in a great place in the future. So many people can't get past the difficult early stages of learning an instrument....but it is SOOOOOOOO worth it.

Rawb

\zoopanoobin\ wrote:

It may seem boring and tedious but you will regret it in the future if you do not.

and that is what makes the gnx so helpful! get bored running scales, switch to a different preset and start running in a different sound reinvigorated imo. Works for me anyways.

phatsack

http://www.guitarbt.com/index.php?page=dl_list

for practicing solos.....and it's also a good site

Unknown

I would suggest learning all the guitar solos and rhythms on an album called \"Blues Breakers with John Mayall\"