...As for the american sheep who complain about prisoner torture. I say pull your head out. Who would you rather be captured by? Think about!! ...
I disagree with your premise. As a former US Naval Officer who has served on ships and submarines, I can tell you that during my military days we fought (cold war) against the Soviet Union and the gulags where they tortured their prisioners (or so we were told). Water boarding was still considered drowning (torture) and if memory serves me correctly, we had prosecuted some Germans and Japanese for that practice after WWII. Sadam Hussein was our good friend back then and I spent two tours in the Persian Gulf supporting his war against Iran. Although, if memory serves, we were 'offically' neutral in the conflict. All my training as a Naval Officer was about maintaining our high ethical standards in the treatment of prisoners - regardless of how others treated us. I think that was a good standard to live up to.
The question has never been who do you want to be captured by, it has always been how we should treat those prisoners we capture. Freedom torture is still torture and on that subject, I will agree with Sen. McCain who has more right to express his opinion on torture than I ever will. It is not sheepish to take the higher morale ground, IMHO, nor is it somehow a suicide pact not to torture someone. My head is out of the sand (or other body parts) and looking directly at the threats we have today.
So, respectfully, I understand your point but have to disagree. Take care.
... Even the destruction of the E cars in Calif and other test areas was not front page news...Hydrogen cells won't cut it and will be more expensive. That was a dumb decision not to use electric cars for day to day work. Potential of 150 mpd on a charge meant no need for oil. Ethanol is not a solution either.
The destruction of the E cars in California was not front page news, but it should have been. Those E cars were very successful...I guess too successful. I did hear an interview of the E car issue on the radio program Coast To Coast AM one night with an owner of one of those E cars. She kept her car and did not give it back. She still drives it and like you said, she gets something like 150 miles per dollar. I think she also said that she could go about 400 miles between charges. So it was a great car according to her.
I was excited about Hydrogen, but the science doesn't appear to be there yet to make it market competitive.
Ethanol might not be a solution except for those farmers who are growing the corn. Still, I would rather pay an American farmer for petrol than sending our dollars to the mid-East. But I have heard that it actually takes more energy to produce Ethanol than what you get out of the process. If that is true, it certainly doesn't seem to be a viable solution.
I would think that electric cars with solar panel tops for recharging would work great for me. I just drive to school in the morning and my car sits out in the parking lot in the sun all day. Having said that, living in Northern Minnesota, we had many days this winter where the temperature was -30 degrees F in the morning. I don't know if the batteries in an E car could handle our winters. The batteries in my gas car failed more than once in those low temps. We are not California. Best wishes.
Gtaus I agree with you on torture, it's just I feel that it is one of them topics that the press has overblown and sensationalized beyond the initial incidense(s) that broke the story open. ( for political reasons ) Almost to the point of starring to meanly at a pow is abuse.
'American sheep' is a broad general term I use all the time when I talk about issues that I feel people just reiterate what the media has put in their heads instead of taking the the time to clearly understand the issue(s) whatever they may be. As I said I use that term all the time, I wasn't thinking and it just rolled out and it does look bad. I was not implying that you or Mikeb or anyone else reading are sheep because you all, feel you have higher morals than my self. Every citizen of the U.S has a right to speak their opinion, for I too served in the service of my country.To reitirate myself ,it wasn't meant to be directed towards anyone in particular and will remove it from my post. Since you have it quoted no one will forget that my moral standard isn't up par with the rest of the nation.
My whole post was meant in general and wasn't directed at anyone person or persons on this thread,there are alot reading who don't post. I usually speak generally. If it was or if do you will know cuz I will mention your name.
There were a lot of comments other than the topic posted I was just trying to address them. God Bless
I know here in Oregon a large part of the issue with Electric cars was no
insurance companies would insure them because of the possibility of an acid spill in a major accident and not having a response mechanism in place to clean it up. Yes we have a HAZMAT unit, but that could easily be overtaxed durring rush hour traffic. Only recently did we get a car dealership in Portland to sell Electric cars as the insurance is finally, but slowly becoming available even though Hybrids have been selling for awhile. Which of course raises the question in my mind what the difference between the batteries in a hybrid and a full electric car are. If you can insure one, Why not the other? I haven't researched it. So while electric cars are better for the enviroment by not emitting the emissions, the potential of an acid spill in a wreck is something that could pose a serious safety concern. How would you know how far acid had been dispersed around an accident? Hopefully someone else could better comment on this.
Rawb, I just want to let you know I always take time to think about what I am going to speak about. Words, to me, are very important. How else can we communicate our ideas? And I generally ignore about 90% of what the media puts out, so you may rest assured I am not led around by by Fox, CNN or what ever else is being broadcast.
I was appalled then and I still am now by what happened. And I am making my voice heard by changing the way I normally vote.
Rawb, I do not feel my moral standards are any higher or better than anyone else. But I do believe there has to be an absolute morality, not a relative morality, that has to be a benchmark to compare to. My Lord, Jesus Christ, set the benchmark and I believe the world would do well to strive to approach His benchmark. That's all I will say on that.
So I accept your explanation, and look forward hearing more of that sweet-sounding Martin guitar.
The simple truth is greed is the culprit nothing has really changed. Love of
money is still the root of all evil. As soon as the pockets of the poor have been picked with oil, the corporations insulated against poverty by the goverments and politicians who are funded by them will mandate and subsidize alternative fuels which they did their best to squelch until they could profit from them. We as a nation have forgotten our roots and the tea in the harbor. One if by land and two if by sea!
There are different viewpoints. Investors suggest looking at any other market, commodity or products.
1970-
Houses (typ 3br) 35K
new Car- 5-6 K
Candy bar- .25
(gas .79 gal peak)
1980's-
Housing- 70k
New car-10-12K
candy bar- .50
gas- .89/gal
1990's-
House- 110K
new car- 15-20K
candy bar- .69
for years the trend was the prices of all major goods went sailing and gasoline was relatively cheap until around '95-98 when oil started losing investments. Idea is if a house can quadruple in cost, as well as a car (today's avg 25G ) then what is the problem with oil co's finally making significant profits. The media did not report front page news when the oil industry was on its back ( from an investment pov).
As the automaker/oil relations are concerned, oil did not profit as much as automakers from the 70's and up. As automakers drove prices up, oil stayed pretty low. Instead of doubling the price of gas ( even after having to change refinery methods for epa changes) they added some, but not as much as they could have. The market would have handled a doubling. Nobody cared about cars and housing doubling. Difference being that HOUSE and car are investments. You don't burn them up. So we didn't care as much about housing (until now)
Oil co's have also looked at Natural Gas, electric, Phone, and other typical businesses that have consistently drove their prices up.
Phone bills 70's- $8 mo plus LD, today it's 5-6x that price.
Electricity- 70's $35/mo.. today 5-8x that amount.
When the price of Electricity goes sailing, many conserve. Price of water goes up, again.. we conserve.
As a nation, we've not done too much to conserve fuel consumption. We shrugged the opportunity for convenience. In the 80's cars got smaller. Most had 4 cyl cars in their driveway. Where did that trend go?? My old Sunbird got some decent mileage. Young people are looking at the Civic's, etc for one primary reason.. gas mileage ( and the trend). So what does that do?? Everybody wants one. So my son sees that wow, a 98 cavalier is $2200, and a '98 civic is (whollly cow) 4 grand!! Yep! WHY?? demand is high. Every kid wants one!!
Look at Hollister clothes.. Remember your wives or daughters wanting Jordache ??? Those were what 5x the price of a regular pair of Lee.. ohhh but it's trendy ! So the argument of supply and demand is surely valid.
I'm not an advocate of the oil co's or what they do, but their point is consistent with inflating costs of other energy and products by comparison.
I was excited about Hydrogen, but the science doesn't appear to be there yet to make it market competitive.
I was going to leave this thread alone, but here I must say that I have to chime in.
The science is there. The science is being held back by the establishment that will not allow for development of technology and enrichment of education to facilitate a move to radically-different technologies. This is mostly because the banking interests involved have a high stake in the current markets, and are not willing to change.
What is there to stop the development of fusion power? We already have consumer-grade cars that \"run on water\", why hasn't this happened yet? Because the development of such a reactor can feed more human units per capita than thousands of existing technologies. It will put people out of business, and those in business now do not want to see that happen. Controversial as this statement may be, Iran is one of the few countries making advances towards using nuclear power to its utmost - and just about everyone else in the world wishes to stop them, completely.
What is there to stop malaria in third-world countries? DDT, which is less harmful to humans than McDonalds, and more beneficial to birds and fish than nature-made nutrients? Whose propaganda was that? Why is it still considered valid, when research shows it to be otherwise? Well, let's ask this question instead: who in the world would want more countries to have prospering economies, when we could just have them die of malaria, AIDS, and whatever else ails them?
Who makes money on the trade deficit of the US? The foreign countries, whose populace is in sweatshops providing cheap labor for us? Of course not! It's the financiers whose primary goal is... well, making money. They can feed off the currency deficiency of USD to make a profit.
Why are South American countries selling drugs to US? Is it because that's where the profit lies? They, too, are victims of a trade deficit - due to IMF impositions on them, they have no choice but to substitute cocaine etc for cash crops that would allow them to become self-sufficient economies. That's what pays the ridiculous interest rates + minimum payment, so that they can import their food from somewhere else.
Where is the US transportation system, the one that's been in decline for the past 50 years? We've lost more railroad in the past 50 years that has been built in the 150 years prior with the steam locomotive, due to lack of maintenance and investment in further development. Is it cheaper to transport goods by trucks? absolutely NOT - not in terms of fuel, manpower, capacity, or insurance costs! Yet US is doing it all over the place.
When will US adopt the MagLev technology, developed by the Germans and implemented by the Chinese? Here's a train that will get you from DC to NY 5 times cheaper and 3 times faster than you could ever have by air travel - all it needs is an efficient energy source. It's a smoother ride than any passenger bus or train in operation now, so why aren't we going for it? Because it's against the financial interests.
A government investment in supporting such projects is the solution to the world's economic problems (I'm just using US as an example, since that's where I live). It's the question of money that tends to put everything on hold, or worse - aside altogether. Those who have the money make the calls; the nearly-bankrupt state and federal governments have little say in the matter.
The solution lies not in improving existing technologies, existing financial systems, or anything of the kind; it is in establishing new financial systems, credit systems, and control systems - systems independent of the financial markets in existence.
And until that happens, we're all... ahem, screwed.
We've developed many technologies. Those steam engines of the past and RR construction had high costs in manpower, deaths. Hundreds of thousands were killed simply building RR system. We would never stand for a technology with such a high cost by todays standards. But that's what it took to develop more efficient transportation of goods and services. Man was considered expandable since there was an abundance of workers.
I have friends that work at NASA here and it is amazing to hear about the new ideas and prototypes we'll most likely never see. Cleaner energy producing ideas and more efficient systems for airliners.. Why not cars??? Why waste all the $ on airlines when its cars, trucks that are more of the fuel issue here.
Sure we have the means to produce a car that gets 100 mpg. We just won't do it.
Could we all drive 2 cyl or 4cyl cars??? Sure we could. But when you see a guy with a 3.5 Ton truck plow into a tiny GEO you go oooohhh not so safe. 55mph was the next answer to conservation. That's an inconvenience so that's out. really, that's the reason it was repealed by public demand. Now if we all had lightweight vehicles, death at impact would be less of a concern. There are more fatal crashes when a heavier vehicle rams a smaller one ( Or if you hit a tree with a GEO). Safer??? that's debatable since most accidents are NOT really accidents.. Someone was on a phone, eating a sandwich, sneezing, or just not paying attention most of the time. It's usually a defective driver and not the car!
Automakers know the market and what it can stand.
You can buy a new car for $20k (nothing fancy) and have an annual fuel cost of $1500 a year. How many years does it take to make up the difference in a car getting better mileage, but nearly double the cost in sticker price and upkeep? We have to decide.. but it comes down to the nitty gritty. If we demand the makers do so by having the public (not politicians) force their hand... you may see some revolutions. New R&D will be expensive, but imagine if FORD or a US CO like GM decides for the better. That could save their butts. So why isn't Japan and Foreign builders making 100mpg cars?? We have not asked for it... have we??? Really???
It has always been a political environment regulating the economic factors. Big businesses always manipulates governments to their agendas...and gets not only profits from the poor working class, but our tax dollars as well.
Recently, President Bush has sent Dick Cheney to the Mid-East to negotiate the skyrocketing oil prices.
That is like sending Michael Jackson with a troop of Cub Scouts on a camping trip.
What OPEC is doing now is placing political pressure on us. OPEC has a history of using oil prices as a political weapon. They want us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. The longer we stay there, the higher the price will go.
I worked with a group of people in the San Francisco Bay area from 1986 to 1992 to promote MagLev mass transit, before I got such a headache over it, and quit. It was a very eye opening experience. I saw corruption and the liars and manipulators from the local government, and finally understood the big picture. Even the MEDIA is as corrupt and manipulative as business and government.
The Big 3 auto manufacturing have set the standards. Even back in the mid-40's they killed the Tucker auto, and you did not see the same technological advancements until the 60's.
If we were to simply focus on the oil industry...
We have 5x's the oil reserves in Colorado and Wyoming than Saudi Arabia. That is not including the huge fields in Alaska, Northwest Territories or the Gulf. With new deep water exploration abilities, we have even found new reserves off Texas and Louisiana that dwarf oil reserves any where else on the Planet....try deregulating oil companies though.
The points are made on how this supposedly technologically advanced nation could easily do without oil as our main energy source, but we have one major problem, business executives, politicians and the media stand in our way.
We have an elected government, which most any nation anywhere else in the world has looked at us with \"shock and awe\" at how stupid are those Americans...anyway? Holy $$$@#!!!
The American dollar is declining right before our eyes...as well as any respect. Our economy is like a bag full of holes...and the money is going to all the wrong hands. There is no way to stop this now... sorry.
I agree Manatou! Pull out the troops & prices would go back to more normal prices! There truly is no way to stop it all! I agree again we are heading torwards events & such in the future that no one can stop! They will come to pass! The thing is are you ready? Am I ready? I hope so thru Christ my Lord! 8)
Could things change?? Sure they could. If the PEOPLE demanded cars that get 60 mpg it would happen. We don't. If we REALLY wanted solutions to problems, we'd be calling those freaks holding office on a daily basis.
What do we do?? Read the papers and watch tv and blog. The message is out but NOT heard. The desks of the leaders need stacks of letters with stern warnings suggesting DO something or they are GONE! That, does not happen. Instead , they get re-elected
Well, putting fear aside, I hope this next few years in our Country is going to force us to make necessary and long overdue changes, that will benefit us into the next generation. There are going to be hardships, and more homeless, more lower class strife, as people on the bottom tier struggle with day to day necessities. I was in construction, before trucking, and both professions, more than half your paycheck goes into operating expenses. I could make the same take home pay working at McDonalds now.
In my first post, I was pointing out how we are going to see our standard of living change. The market is doing it's normal downswing, and seeking it's bottom, which is a normal inevitable flow of the market. What is going to be different this time, is Americans are going to emerge with a weakened dollar, and a failed government like never before. We will this time be forced to weigh necessity/ vs. luxury. Our American way of life is going to turn.
There will be hardships, but \"forced change\" is the only way to sometimes get the baby off the binky. Maybe we will learn to behave more responsibly.
My God, the TV alone...we pay for mostly commercials, and re-runs, and get total media propaganda news casts. The network stations give us the worst written programming, like they are merely slopping the hogs...and we pay for this...and suffer through one commercial Holiday after another.
I'll be thankful to say to myself, wow..TV is a worthless luxury, I do not need.
Think about all the luxuries we Americans over indulge, and what it's real value is. It's actually disgusting, when you stop an look. I didn't even go fishing last year, because our lakes are so polluted, there are hardly any fish left, and you don't really want to eat the ones you do catch. I have a hard time relaxing when jet skiers and water skiers practically run over my fishing line, and their waves move my anchor...or some city slicker in his 70mph Bass boat all decked out in Cabella or LL Bean, comes racing into my spot to fish for 20 minutes and then races off to another spot, and you see them toss a beer bottle over the side...or stand up and urinate in public , etc. Life is really rather insane anymore.
How can we call a car accident...an accident, when it is from some idiot talking on the cell phone, or eating a bag of fries...or searching for a CD?
They will mow down a person in a cross walk and then not stop.
If more people are forced to walk, take mass transit, or ride a bike, that is a good thing. Lets force Walmart to go back to China too...by not buying their useless holiday crap...or items we need to learn to live without.
The $300 check I get won't be spent on gas...or at Wallyworld. :evil:
I agree Manatou! Pull out the troops & prices would go back to more normal prices! )
People are always complaining about the cost of the war in Iraq. Did you know that we spend more money per day on public assistance to illegal aliens? Yes, I said public assistance.
Once the Iraq war is over, and we fix the illegal alien problem, the amazingly high deficit will become a memory.
I LOVE this thread. Not only fascinating, but proof positive that you can be interested in git'rs and music and NOT spend your spare time wiping pizza cheese off your chin. (could someone explain this to my boss's wife??? :? )
As we are trying to deal with the immagration issues into the U.S, there is
a flip side to this. And that is while the immagrants come here and tax our social resources and do the dirty jobs that are beneath us, at the same time there are huge numbers of U.S. and Canadian citizens moving south to take advantage of the much lower realestate,medical, and everyday costs of living prices. And many of them haven't bothered to learn Spanish. When you retire and are on a fixed income, it becomes more essential you get the biggest bang for your buck. As someone who has vacationed in Mexico every Febuary for the past 12 years, I can say I have seen some of the impact of this. We go down there with what is to them great wealth even though to us it may seem like just getting by. I'm certainly not rich by any means, but My wife and I get by pretty well. And she has retired and is on a fixed income now so we have to adjust. So it is of no wonder that they would want to come to the U.S. in search of better wages and living conditions. But it is also slowly improving the economic situation there and the Labor movement is starting to take full swing there also. Whether we like it or not, we are in the beggining stages of a more unified global economy and maybe more importantly a global labor force. It will surely meld together more as time goes forward. How it will turn out of course is the big million dollar question. After all, unless any of us have any American Indian heritage in our genes, most of our heritage is probably immagrant anyway.
Food for thought.
The people of this country have a power that we refuse to use. Someone mentioned earlier about not buying or driving for a week. I say we take it a little further. Not buy, drive, go to work, etc for a week. I don't know if that would work, but something has to happen. And the american people have to do something about. This isn't going to be fixed with Hiliary or Obama or McCain. We have to do it.
Yet the people of this country allow the media to push the issues. Notice that gas prices are not a election issue right now. It even seems the war has kind of taken a back seat.
And emailing your congressman or senator or rep. isn't going to work, there to busy spending your money on high priced hookers and other dirty politics.
We the people of the United States need to do something. Yet how do we have another \"Boston Tea Party\" that would have the same affect today that it did then when this country is so large now.
Actually, I am fine with the politicians simply playing race cards and stabbing each other in the back, because I find that less insulting than empty campaign promises. With the way things are going, and projected to continue, the democrats will once again \"blow it.\" McCain will get elected, and the McCain administration will simply be an extension of the Bush administration.
Fuel boycotts have never worked in the past. We truckers have tried to unify like the days with Hoffa, but so far to no avail.
I agree...as far as NAFTA, I have yet to hear Oblamo or Hitlery outright oppose it.
Actually, I am fine with the politicians simply playing race cards and stabbing each other in the back, because I find that less insulting than empty campaign promises. With the way things are going, and projected to continue, the democrats will once again \"blow it.\" McCain will get elected, and the McCain administration will simply be an extension of the Bush administration.
Fuel boycotts have never worked in the past. We truckers have tried to unify like the days with Hoffa, but so far to no avail.
I agree...as far as NAFTA, I have yet to hear Oblamo or Hitlery outright oppose it.
Hussein.. I mean Obama has critizied Hiliary for being for NAFTA at the time..
All the posts in this thread seem to indicate that change is sorely needed. Are the upcoming elections going to provide this change and help solve our problems? Have they ever before? Not really. What we need is a government that will satisfy all the needs of people. That government is the Kingdom that Jesus preached about and that is still being preached about in all the earth.
It is a government that will provide enough food, housing and enjoyable work for its subjects as well as provide mankind with perfect health and everlasting life.
The fact that things are as bad as they are now is proof that God is soon going to do away with this old human system and replace it with his Kingdom under Christ Jesus.
For more information please visit www.watchtower.org
guitar3456 made the most valid point...if we were to really want change... then force the issues. Call your elected officials and tell them what is concerning you, and what you would like to see done about it. If they keep getting bombarded with calls from concerned citizens, about the issues that affect us all, then yes, they will do something. If the status quo follows suit, and they do not hear what is concerning us, then, they have no reason to do anything.
I believe NAFTA actually started forming before the first Bush was in the White House, I believe that was Reagan. Kinda muddled along with the senior Bush, which signed the initial draft, then Clinton in his first term signed what is now in effect.
The thing is, our Congress and Senate could go in a amend the treaty, I am sure Canada would be a more than willing partner, to adjust for the current threats which face this nation. When NAFTA was originally drafted, the world was not as dangerous as it is now. We knew who our enemies were, and basically had a stalemate (i.e. Cold War). Now, with all these emerging 3rd World countries gaining Nuclear technology from Russia and North Korea, we have no idea who the real enemies are. NAFTA needs to be updated to reflect the current world affairs. The document was outdated before it was ever signed.
There have been a couple of jabs about NAFTA yes, but it certainly isn't
in the front running of issues. There are priority's. And actually the world has always been a dangerous place, only 911 brought it directly home to our soil in a bigger way than anyone could have imagined. And that is not something we are used to. We forgot about Pearl Harbor and we got all comfy and let down our guard and unfortunately low and behold we got hit. It's always really been there. It just waits. And part of what made this so extrordinary was the fact that satellite news put it in our living rooms in real time. What it would have been like if Pearl Harbor could have been viewed the same way.Who know's.
There truly is no way to stop it all! I agree again we are heading torwards events & such in the future that no one can stop! They will come to pass! The thing is are you ready? Am I ready? I hope so thru Christ my Lord! 8)
AMEN Bro!
Release hell already... :shock:.. Take me home sweet Jesus!
I don't even wanna stay and watch...well just a little...but not too much..thank you.
Comments
I disagree with your premise. As a former US Naval Officer who has served on ships and submarines, I can tell you that during my military days we fought (cold war) against the Soviet Union and the gulags where they tortured their prisioners (or so we were told). Water boarding was still considered drowning (torture) and if memory serves me correctly, we had prosecuted some Germans and Japanese for that practice after WWII. Sadam Hussein was our good friend back then and I spent two tours in the Persian Gulf supporting his war against Iran. Although, if memory serves, we were 'offically' neutral in the conflict. All my training as a Naval Officer was about maintaining our high ethical standards in the treatment of prisoners - regardless of how others treated us. I think that was a good standard to live up to.
The question has never been who do you want to be captured by, it has always been how we should treat those prisoners we capture. Freedom torture is still torture and on that subject, I will agree with Sen. McCain who has more right to express his opinion on torture than I ever will. It is not sheepish to take the higher morale ground, IMHO, nor is it somehow a suicide pact not to torture someone. My head is out of the sand (or other body parts) and looking directly at the threats we have today.
So, respectfully, I understand your point but have to disagree. Take care.
The destruction of the E cars in California was not front page news, but it should have been. Those E cars were very successful...I guess too successful. I did hear an interview of the E car issue on the radio program Coast To Coast AM one night with an owner of one of those E cars. She kept her car and did not give it back. She still drives it and like you said, she gets something like 150 miles per dollar. I think she also said that she could go about 400 miles between charges. So it was a great car according to her.
I was excited about Hydrogen, but the science doesn't appear to be there yet to make it market competitive.
Ethanol might not be a solution except for those farmers who are growing the corn. Still, I would rather pay an American farmer for petrol than sending our dollars to the mid-East. But I have heard that it actually takes more energy to produce Ethanol than what you get out of the process. If that is true, it certainly doesn't seem to be a viable solution.
I would think that electric cars with solar panel tops for recharging would work great for me. I just drive to school in the morning and my car sits out in the parking lot in the sun all day. Having said that, living in Northern Minnesota, we had many days this winter where the temperature was -30 degrees F in the morning. I don't know if the batteries in an E car could handle our winters. The batteries in my gas car failed more than once in those low temps. We are not California. Best wishes.
'American sheep' is a broad general term I use all the time when I talk about issues that I feel people just reiterate what the media has put in their heads instead of taking the the time to clearly understand the issue(s) whatever they may be. As I said I use that term all the time, I wasn't thinking and it just rolled out and it does look bad. I was not implying that you or Mikeb or anyone else reading are sheep because you all, feel you have higher morals than my self. Every citizen of the U.S has a right to speak their opinion, for I too served in the service of my country.To reitirate myself ,it wasn't meant to be directed towards anyone in particular and will remove it from my post. Since you have it quoted no one will forget that my moral standard isn't up par with the rest of the nation.
My whole post was meant in general and wasn't directed at anyone person or persons on this thread,there are alot reading who don't post. I usually speak generally. If it was or if do you will know cuz I will mention your name.
There were a lot of comments other than the topic posted I was just trying to address them. God Bless
insurance companies would insure them because of the possibility of an acid spill in a major accident and not having a response mechanism in place to clean it up. Yes we have a HAZMAT unit, but that could easily be overtaxed durring rush hour traffic. Only recently did we get a car dealership in Portland to sell Electric cars as the insurance is finally, but slowly becoming available even though Hybrids have been selling for awhile. Which of course raises the question in my mind what the difference between the batteries in a hybrid and a full electric car are. If you can insure one, Why not the other? I haven't researched it. So while electric cars are better for the enviroment by not emitting the emissions, the potential of an acid spill in a wreck is something that could pose a serious safety concern. How would you know how far acid had been dispersed around an accident? Hopefully someone else could better comment on this.
I was appalled then and I still am now by what happened. And I am making my voice heard by changing the way I normally vote.
Rawb, I do not feel my moral standards are any higher or better than anyone else. But I do believe there has to be an absolute morality, not a relative morality, that has to be a benchmark to compare to. My Lord, Jesus Christ, set the benchmark and I believe the world would do well to strive to approach His benchmark. That's all I will say on that.
So I accept your explanation, and look forward hearing more of that sweet-sounding Martin guitar.
peace
money is still the root of all evil. As soon as the pockets of the poor have been picked with oil, the corporations insulated against poverty by the goverments and politicians who are funded by them will mandate and subsidize alternative fuels which they did their best to squelch until they could profit from them. We as a nation have forgotten our roots and the tea in the harbor. One if by land and two if by sea!
As for my kingdom.....
MB
1970-
Houses (typ 3br) 35K
new Car- 5-6 K
Candy bar- .25
(gas .79 gal peak)
1980's-
Housing- 70k
New car-10-12K
candy bar- .50
gas- .89/gal
1990's-
House- 110K
new car- 15-20K
candy bar- .69
for years the trend was the prices of all major goods went sailing and gasoline was relatively cheap until around '95-98 when oil started losing investments. Idea is if a house can quadruple in cost, as well as a car (today's avg 25G ) then what is the problem with oil co's finally making significant profits. The media did not report front page news when the oil industry was on its back ( from an investment pov).
As the automaker/oil relations are concerned, oil did not profit as much as automakers from the 70's and up. As automakers drove prices up, oil stayed pretty low. Instead of doubling the price of gas ( even after having to change refinery methods for epa changes) they added some, but not as much as they could have. The market would have handled a doubling. Nobody cared about cars and housing doubling. Difference being that HOUSE and car are investments. You don't burn them up. So we didn't care as much about housing (until now)
Oil co's have also looked at Natural Gas, electric, Phone, and other typical businesses that have consistently drove their prices up.
Phone bills 70's- $8 mo plus LD, today it's 5-6x that price.
Electricity- 70's $35/mo.. today 5-8x that amount.
When the price of Electricity goes sailing, many conserve. Price of water goes up, again.. we conserve.
As a nation, we've not done too much to conserve fuel consumption. We shrugged the opportunity for convenience. In the 80's cars got smaller. Most had 4 cyl cars in their driveway. Where did that trend go?? My old Sunbird got some decent mileage. Young people are looking at the Civic's, etc for one primary reason.. gas mileage ( and the trend). So what does that do?? Everybody wants one. So my son sees that wow, a 98 cavalier is $2200, and a '98 civic is (whollly cow) 4 grand!! Yep! WHY?? demand is high. Every kid wants one!!
Look at Hollister clothes.. Remember your wives or daughters wanting Jordache ??? Those were what 5x the price of a regular pair of Lee.. ohhh but it's trendy ! So the argument of supply and demand is surely valid.
I'm not an advocate of the oil co's or what they do, but their point is consistent with inflating costs of other energy and products by comparison.
The science is there. The science is being held back by the establishment that will not allow for development of technology and enrichment of education to facilitate a move to radically-different technologies. This is mostly because the banking interests involved have a high stake in the current markets, and are not willing to change.
What is there to stop the development of fusion power? We already have consumer-grade cars that \"run on water\", why hasn't this happened yet? Because the development of such a reactor can feed more human units per capita than thousands of existing technologies. It will put people out of business, and those in business now do not want to see that happen. Controversial as this statement may be, Iran is one of the few countries making advances towards using nuclear power to its utmost - and just about everyone else in the world wishes to stop them, completely.
What is there to stop malaria in third-world countries? DDT, which is less harmful to humans than McDonalds, and more beneficial to birds and fish than nature-made nutrients? Whose propaganda was that? Why is it still considered valid, when research shows it to be otherwise? Well, let's ask this question instead: who in the world would want more countries to have prospering economies, when we could just have them die of malaria, AIDS, and whatever else ails them?
Who makes money on the trade deficit of the US? The foreign countries, whose populace is in sweatshops providing cheap labor for us? Of course not! It's the financiers whose primary goal is... well, making money. They can feed off the currency deficiency of USD to make a profit.
Why are South American countries selling drugs to US? Is it because that's where the profit lies? They, too, are victims of a trade deficit - due to IMF impositions on them, they have no choice but to substitute cocaine etc for cash crops that would allow them to become self-sufficient economies. That's what pays the ridiculous interest rates + minimum payment, so that they can import their food from somewhere else.
Where is the US transportation system, the one that's been in decline for the past 50 years? We've lost more railroad in the past 50 years that has been built in the 150 years prior with the steam locomotive, due to lack of maintenance and investment in further development. Is it cheaper to transport goods by trucks? absolutely NOT - not in terms of fuel, manpower, capacity, or insurance costs! Yet US is doing it all over the place.
When will US adopt the MagLev technology, developed by the Germans and implemented by the Chinese? Here's a train that will get you from DC to NY 5 times cheaper and 3 times faster than you could ever have by air travel - all it needs is an efficient energy source. It's a smoother ride than any passenger bus or train in operation now, so why aren't we going for it? Because it's against the financial interests.
A government investment in supporting such projects is the solution to the world's economic problems (I'm just using US as an example, since that's where I live). It's the question of money that tends to put everything on hold, or worse - aside altogether. Those who have the money make the calls; the nearly-bankrupt state and federal governments have little say in the matter.
The solution lies not in improving existing technologies, existing financial systems, or anything of the kind; it is in establishing new financial systems, credit systems, and control systems - systems independent of the financial markets in existence.
And until that happens, we're all... ahem, screwed.
-Ilia
We've developed many technologies. Those steam engines of the past and RR construction had high costs in manpower, deaths. Hundreds of thousands were killed simply building RR system. We would never stand for a technology with such a high cost by todays standards. But that's what it took to develop more efficient transportation of goods and services. Man was considered expandable since there was an abundance of workers.
I have friends that work at NASA here and it is amazing to hear about the new ideas and prototypes we'll most likely never see. Cleaner energy producing ideas and more efficient systems for airliners.. Why not cars??? Why waste all the $ on airlines when its cars, trucks that are more of the fuel issue here.
Sure we have the means to produce a car that gets 100 mpg. We just won't do it.
Could we all drive 2 cyl or 4cyl cars??? Sure we could. But when you see a guy with a 3.5 Ton truck plow into a tiny GEO you go oooohhh not so safe. 55mph was the next answer to conservation. That's an inconvenience so that's out. really, that's the reason it was repealed by public demand. Now if we all had lightweight vehicles, death at impact would be less of a concern. There are more fatal crashes when a heavier vehicle rams a smaller one ( Or if you hit a tree with a GEO). Safer??? that's debatable since most accidents are NOT really accidents.. Someone was on a phone, eating a sandwich, sneezing, or just not paying attention most of the time. It's usually a defective driver and not the car!
Automakers know the market and what it can stand.
You can buy a new car for $20k (nothing fancy) and have an annual fuel cost of $1500 a year. How many years does it take to make up the difference in a car getting better mileage, but nearly double the cost in sticker price and upkeep? We have to decide.. but it comes down to the nitty gritty. If we demand the makers do so by having the public (not politicians) force their hand... you may see some revolutions. New R&D will be expensive, but imagine if FORD or a US CO like GM decides for the better. That could save their butts. So why isn't Japan and Foreign builders making 100mpg cars?? We have not asked for it... have we??? Really???
Recently, President Bush has sent Dick Cheney to the Mid-East to negotiate the skyrocketing oil prices.
That is like sending Michael Jackson with a troop of Cub Scouts on a camping trip.
What OPEC is doing now is placing political pressure on us. OPEC has a history of using oil prices as a political weapon. They want us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. The longer we stay there, the higher the price will go.
I worked with a group of people in the San Francisco Bay area from 1986 to 1992 to promote MagLev mass transit, before I got such a headache over it, and quit. It was a very eye opening experience. I saw corruption and the liars and manipulators from the local government, and finally understood the big picture. Even the MEDIA is as corrupt and manipulative as business and government.
The Big 3 auto manufacturing have set the standards. Even back in the mid-40's they killed the Tucker auto, and you did not see the same technological advancements until the 60's.
If we were to simply focus on the oil industry...
We have 5x's the oil reserves in Colorado and Wyoming than Saudi Arabia. That is not including the huge fields in Alaska, Northwest Territories or the Gulf. With new deep water exploration abilities, we have even found new reserves off Texas and Louisiana that dwarf oil reserves any where else on the Planet....try deregulating oil companies though.
The points are made on how this supposedly technologically advanced nation could easily do without oil as our main energy source, but we have one major problem, business executives, politicians and the media stand in our way.
We have an elected government, which most any nation anywhere else in the world has looked at us with \"shock and awe\" at how stupid are those Americans...anyway? Holy $$$@#!!!
The American dollar is declining right before our eyes...as well as any respect. Our economy is like a bag full of holes...and the money is going to all the wrong hands. There is no way to stop this now... sorry.
What do we do?? Read the papers and watch tv and blog. The message is out but NOT heard. The desks of the leaders need stacks of letters with stern warnings suggesting DO something or they are GONE! That, does not happen. Instead , they get re-elected
In my first post, I was pointing out how we are going to see our standard of living change. The market is doing it's normal downswing, and seeking it's bottom, which is a normal inevitable flow of the market. What is going to be different this time, is Americans are going to emerge with a weakened dollar, and a failed government like never before. We will this time be forced to weigh necessity/ vs. luxury. Our American way of life is going to turn.
There will be hardships, but \"forced change\" is the only way to sometimes get the baby off the binky. Maybe we will learn to behave more responsibly.
My God, the TV alone...we pay for mostly commercials, and re-runs, and get total media propaganda news casts. The network stations give us the worst written programming, like they are merely slopping the hogs...and we pay for this...and suffer through one commercial Holiday after another.
I'll be thankful to say to myself, wow..TV is a worthless luxury, I do not need.
Think about all the luxuries we Americans over indulge, and what it's real value is. It's actually disgusting, when you stop an look. I didn't even go fishing last year, because our lakes are so polluted, there are hardly any fish left, and you don't really want to eat the ones you do catch. I have a hard time relaxing when jet skiers and water skiers practically run over my fishing line, and their waves move my anchor...or some city slicker in his 70mph Bass boat all decked out in Cabella or LL Bean, comes racing into my spot to fish for 20 minutes and then races off to another spot, and you see them toss a beer bottle over the side...or stand up and urinate in public , etc. Life is really rather insane anymore.
How can we call a car accident...an accident, when it is from some idiot talking on the cell phone, or eating a bag of fries...or searching for a CD?
They will mow down a person in a cross walk and then not stop.
If more people are forced to walk, take mass transit, or ride a bike, that is a good thing. Lets force Walmart to go back to China too...by not buying their useless holiday crap...or items we need to learn to live without.
The $300 check I get won't be spent on gas...or at Wallyworld. :evil:
People are always complaining about the cost of the war in Iraq. Did you know that we spend more money per day on public assistance to illegal aliens? Yes, I said public assistance.
Once the Iraq war is over, and we fix the illegal alien problem, the amazingly high deficit will become a memory.
Amen Bro! Push 1 for English! :roll:
a flip side to this. And that is while the immagrants come here and tax our social resources and do the dirty jobs that are beneath us, at the same time there are huge numbers of U.S. and Canadian citizens moving south to take advantage of the much lower realestate,medical, and everyday costs of living prices. And many of them haven't bothered to learn Spanish. When you retire and are on a fixed income, it becomes more essential you get the biggest bang for your buck. As someone who has vacationed in Mexico every Febuary for the past 12 years, I can say I have seen some of the impact of this. We go down there with what is to them great wealth even though to us it may seem like just getting by. I'm certainly not rich by any means, but My wife and I get by pretty well. And she has retired and is on a fixed income now so we have to adjust. So it is of no wonder that they would want to come to the U.S. in search of better wages and living conditions. But it is also slowly improving the economic situation there and the Labor movement is starting to take full swing there also. Whether we like it or not, we are in the beggining stages of a more unified global economy and maybe more importantly a global labor force. It will surely meld together more as time goes forward. How it will turn out of course is the big million dollar question. After all, unless any of us have any American Indian heritage in our genes, most of our heritage is probably immagrant anyway.
Food for thought.
BOSTON TEA PARTY...
The people of this country have a power that we refuse to use. Someone mentioned earlier about not buying or driving for a week. I say we take it a little further. Not buy, drive, go to work, etc for a week. I don't know if that would work, but something has to happen. And the american people have to do something about. This isn't going to be fixed with Hiliary or Obama or McCain. We have to do it.
Yet the people of this country allow the media to push the issues. Notice that gas prices are not a election issue right now. It even seems the war has kind of taken a back seat.
And emailing your congressman or senator or rep. isn't going to work, there to busy spending your money on high priced hookers and other dirty politics.
We the people of the United States need to do something. Yet how do we have another \"Boston Tea Party\" that would have the same affect today that it did then when this country is so large now.
Fuel boycotts have never worked in the past. We truckers have tried to unify like the days with Hoffa, but so far to no avail.
I agree...as far as NAFTA, I have yet to hear Oblamo or Hitlery outright oppose it.
Hussein.. I mean Obama has critizied Hiliary for being for NAFTA at the time..
It is a government that will provide enough food, housing and enjoyable work for its subjects as well as provide mankind with perfect health and everlasting life.
The fact that things are as bad as they are now is proof that God is soon going to do away with this old human system and replace it with his Kingdom under Christ Jesus.
For more information please visit www.watchtower.org
I believe NAFTA actually started forming before the first Bush was in the White House, I believe that was Reagan. Kinda muddled along with the senior Bush, which signed the initial draft, then Clinton in his first term signed what is now in effect.
The thing is, our Congress and Senate could go in a amend the treaty, I am sure Canada would be a more than willing partner, to adjust for the current threats which face this nation. When NAFTA was originally drafted, the world was not as dangerous as it is now. We knew who our enemies were, and basically had a stalemate (i.e. Cold War). Now, with all these emerging 3rd World countries gaining Nuclear technology from Russia and North Korea, we have no idea who the real enemies are. NAFTA needs to be updated to reflect the current world affairs. The document was outdated before it was ever signed.
in the front running of issues. There are priority's. And actually the world has always been a dangerous place, only 911 brought it directly home to our soil in a bigger way than anyone could have imagined. And that is not something we are used to. We forgot about Pearl Harbor and we got all comfy and let down our guard and unfortunately low and behold we got hit. It's always really been there. It just waits. And part of what made this so extrordinary was the fact that satellite news put it in our living rooms in real time. What it would have been like if Pearl Harbor could have been viewed the same way.Who know's.
Release hell already... :shock:.. Take me home sweet Jesus!
I don't even wanna stay and watch...well just a little...but not too much..thank you.
Lord...is Adriana Lima...really an Angel?
HA!!! I KNEW IT !!!