And...this matters why????
It's just an ownership thing...companies buy each other all the time. As long as the production management stays the same, Gibson will continue building overpriced Les Pauls for well-heeled axists to buy. The rest of us will keep looking for better git'rs at a reasonable cost. Or buy a PRS and at least get your money's worth...
The thing that might change is the parts or service structure...companies that buy other companies are usually looking for ways to save/make money. At times this causes the brand to suffer the consequences of \"doing business\". :roll:
I doubt it will have any impact on craftsmanship or quality. As far as Les Pauls being over-priced, they will still be high-end priced guitars as long as people are willing to pay for them.
I'm not unhappy with them, but it's been years since they've built hand-made guitars, and to me it seems like you're mostly paying for the brand at this point in time. I'll take a Carvin over a PRS any day, and pay a thousand less (possibly two) - at least their templates are made by an actual luthier. When you pay as much as it takes for a PRS with comporable features and quality, you're probably not getting your money's worth.
I'm not unhappy with them, but it's been years since they've built hand-made guitars, and to me it seems like you're mostly paying for the brand at this point in time. I'll take a Carvin over a PRS any day, and pay a thousand less (possibly two) - at least their templates are made by an actual luthier. When you pay as much as it takes for a PRS with comporable features and quality, you're probably not getting your money's worth.
Noted. Not a lot of really finely made git'rs out there any more. The new Gibson ES355 Custom Shop reissue ($3200!!!) is an embarrassment. Soon, they'll be making Les Pauls in China. :shock:
Noted. Not a lot of really finely made git'rs out there any more. The new Gibson ES355 Custom Shop reissue ($3200!!!) is an embarrassment. Soon, they'll be making Les Pauls in China. :shock:
They already do..........Epiphone! Speaking of which, I picked up an Epi Goldtop last summer and it truly is a great instrument. Tone wise, it sounds excellent, but I really judge an instrument on how well it stays in tune. Tuning once in 3 hours is great in my books. My co-guitarist with his $2800.00 Gibson, can't stay in tune for more the 3 songs.
They already do..........Epiphone! Speaking of which, I picked up an Epi Goldtop last summer and it truly is a great instrument. Tone wise, it sounds excellent, but I really judge an instrument on how well it stays in tune. Tuning once in 3 hours is great in my books. My co-guitarist with his $2800.00 Gibson, can't stay in tune for more the 3 songs.[/quote]
I agree My Epi LP Custom stays in tune very well even through all the string bending. Almost as well as my 1964 Martin F-65 archtop electric.
Marshall/ Vox/ Korg one parent company
Fender Jackson Charvel same
Digitech, JBL, Lexicon and a host more.. Harman Group
Rocktron has been part of GHS division for a while
Just a different business model that looks better for investor futures.
Some investors don't put their eggs in one basket and lean towards other
companies with parenting capital distribution.
Now for the guy with a $2800 Lp that can't stay in tune.... he needs a setup
or it could depend on the song key, cheap strings or just his playing.
Some guys who detune a lot don't realize hard fretting makes them out of tune.
Either that, or he may need to look at a Gibson LP Robot guitar
Epi LP's and guitars are great, but nowhere near the build construction, materials etc as a Gibbie LP Custom. According to Gibson builders
I dig TC stuff I just hope they dont start chargeing as much as Gibson :shock:
8) +1 on well made Gibsons and Fender USA, etc.... I played a new ES339 all weekend. Tobacco burst with a 58 profile neck and 57 pups...WOW! cool fiddle ...now my SGs had her feeling hurt for awhile LOL
Ok lets say you buy an \"overpriced\" Gibby with block and binding archtop or whatever you spend about 3 grand...you get a 300 dollar price drop after you buy it but thats it...5 years later you sell it for at least what you paid... I have a SG standard I bought in 2006 for 950/with case. NEW @ my GC in town It goes for $1450 now, so I can get most everything back already if I sold it on ebay I bet. ex: http://cgi.ebay.com/2006-Gibson-USA-SG-Standard-Heritage-Cherry-MINT_W0QQitemZ320210494734QQihZ011QQcategoryZ47073QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
...I cant say that about my other PRC or Korean fiddles. IMHO...if you have a few bucks extra to invest they are really not such a bad deal
Now if you cant keep your expensive well made guitar it tune go set it up professionally and i bet unless its a factory defect it will. no exuse for out of tune guitars even cheap ones if there setup correctly with a decent nut and bridge. Just my lame 2 cents worth. :roll: I know...I know...Ive been smoking the gibson pipe these past few years
I'm with ODB on this one. If I ever want to sell my LP or SG, I'm not going to lose much on them. And as far as tuning problems, never had them with any of my Gibsons. Please don't even try to compare an Epi, to a real Gibson. But if it works for you, and you prefer less quality, more power to ya!
I'm with ODB on this one. If I ever want to sell my LP or SG, I'm not going to lose much on them. And as far as tuning problems, never had them with any of my Gibsons. Please don't even try to compare an Epi, to a real Gibson. But if it works for you, and you prefer less quality, more power to ya!
Never said an Epi compares to a gibby just that mine has no tuning problems. I had it set up by a luthier.
You prefer Ibanez, or an Epi over a Gibson? ODB is right about Gibsons keeping their value.
I don't have anything against say, an Ibanez as I even owned a few, and still own an Ibanez bass, but for quality I go for Gibson. True they are very exspensive, but 20 years from now It'll still sound awesome and still have value.
You prefer Ibanez, or an Epi over a Gibson? ODB is right about Gibsons keeping their value.
I don't have anything against say, an Ibanez as I even owned a few, and still own an Ibanez bass, but for quality I go for Gibson. True they are very exspensive, but 20 years from now It'll still sound awesome and still have value.
No one would debate the investment value of a Gibson. I think about the ES355ESTD I paid $650 and sold for $750, and what it's worth now, and I hold my head and weep. It played nice too. 8)
Buuuut...few of us have the $ to lay out 3 grand for a fiddle, especially you married/family guyz. Try explaining THAT purchase to the Mrs. :shock: If you're looking for a good-playing git'r, you can get a fine fiddle for a grand and change. Ibanez, Jackson, Dean, ESP, et al, give you good bang for the buck. Even an Epiphone is a better value.
So if you're \"investing\" in a git'r and you've got the bux - or your wife will \"let\" you - then yeah, a Gibson is a fine git'r. But holding it's value doesn't make it a good ax - ask all those guys who paid 3 grand for a poorly setu-up Gibson and can't stand playing it. They'll be happy in ten years but aren't diggin' it now. AND they have to listen to the wife harp about how they spent all that cake for a git'r. :?
By the way on of my finest playing and sounding git'rs is the late 70's Ibanez Musician; and it's worth more now than when I got it...
But who would spend 3 G's on a poorly set up axe anyway? Before making such a large purchase, you have to at least try it out and know what you're paying for.
Paid almost 6K for my Gibson L5CES, and never looked back..
Told the old lady \"I work my ass off, I've wanted one for 40 years, and I'm gonna get it\"..
Sometimes you have to make a trade off with the old lady too. For example: Tax refund time comes and you want that new Gibby Robot, so you offer to get a new living room set before you pop the guitar thing on her. Hopefully it would butter her up just enough so that she wont say a word about the new baby you're bringing home.
Paid almost 6K for my Gibson L5CES, and never looked back..
Told the old lady \"I work my ***purple elephant*** off, I've wanted one for 40 years, and I'm gonna get it\"..
I've looked at ES355's from the late 60's-early 80's era that went for $4-5K, and worth every nickel. Some of them go for 8-10K or more. :shock:
But there's a BIG difference between laying down 3 bills for a standard issue Gibson no different from the other 20,000 they made that year, and laying out thousands for a classic design that has stood the test of time and that is in perfect shape.
And I don't even HAVE a wife to explain it to.
You Know I totally understand the money thing and finding value in affordable instruments.
I only have my one Gibson and it's a big deal to me at this point with a kid in college and one in preschool that I weazeled it outta my very modest budget.
I have a Fender Tele Standard (MIM) in layaway to hotrod and have fun with too...(I am so hooked on Teles since i got that 40 dollar noname onelast year). I'm stealin it for $250.00 and I still had to put it in layaway :oops: so yea I dont mean to sound all snoby about High end guitars I just finally have one and now realize it was so way worth the cash. It brings a smile to my face every time I take it out.
TAL your my hero...and also to blame for my Gibson infatuation...after hearing yours it really gave me G.A.S.
You think YOU got it bad? I wet my panties every time I hold an ES355. But they just cost too much...like 4 or 5 or 8 mortgage payments. :shock: . But I'd still love to have one. But you'd see me doing \"Afternoon Delight\" for an encore before you saw me fork out 3-4 grand for a current day Les Paul....
I just purchased a Studio LP...I didn't ask the wife :roll: . But I get my GC statement on-line to my personal e-mail, so I can just make small payments without her knowing about it. They had a no interest for 12 months special. It is quite amazing and the tone is unbelievable. Maybe it will make me play better... :shock:
I really like guitars so in that resperct I think its cool. The whole tuning mechanics thing might be just extra stuff to break in the future...but I cant help thinking its a great idea for some applications...now please lets have one in something other than BLUE/SILVER for the finish like a honeyburst or tobacco burst is more my likeing. Would love to try one out.
I really like guitars so in that resperct I think its cool. The whole tuning mechanics thing might be just extra stuff to break in the future...but I cant help thinking its a great idea for some applications...now please lets have one in something other than BLUE/SILVER for the finish like a honeyburst or tobacco burst is more my likeing. Would love to try one out.
I just want a guitar that tells me how good I sound. \"Bam. The FUTure of RocknRoll....\"
I paid $450 for my 69 Les Paul STD in 1978 (not even original hardware)...the other day somebody offered me $2,000 for it...in 2 mins he was up to $2,500 (I said \"It just isn't for sale\")
Next week I'm getting a \"VG Strat\"...just for grins...everyone I know was aware of my lust for this guitar, so they all gave me GC gift certificates for my birthday!...got over half the price of the ax just in gifts !
I paid $450 for my 69 Les Paul STD in 1978 (not even original hardware)...the other day somebody offered me $2,000 for it...in 2 mins he was up to $2,500 (I said \"It just isn't for sale\")
Next week I'm getting a \"VG Strat\"...just for grins...everyone I know was aware of my lust for this guitar, so they all gave me GC gift certificates for my birthday!...got over half the price of the ax just in gifts !
Sah-weet!!
I played one of these in CO last trip, and it was mighty tasty. But I'm holdin' out for my '355... 8)
Comments
It's just an ownership thing...companies buy each other all the time. As long as the production management stays the same, Gibson will continue building overpriced Les Pauls for well-heeled axists to buy. The rest of us will keep looking for better git'rs at a reasonable cost. Or buy a PRS and at least get your money's worth...
The thing that might change is the parts or service structure...companies that buy other companies are usually looking for ways to save/make money. At times this causes the brand to suffer the consequences of \"doing business\". :roll:
Yeah :roll: money's worth.... :?
They already do..........Epiphone! Speaking of which, I picked up an Epi Goldtop last summer and it truly is a great instrument. Tone wise, it sounds excellent, but I really judge an instrument on how well it stays in tune. Tuning once in 3 hours is great in my books. My co-guitarist with his $2800.00 Gibson, can't stay in tune for more the 3 songs.
I agree My Epi LP Custom stays in tune very well even through all the string bending. Almost as well as my 1964 Martin F-65 archtop electric.
Fender Jackson Charvel same
Digitech, JBL, Lexicon and a host more.. Harman Group
Rocktron has been part of GHS division for a while
Just a different business model that looks better for investor futures.
Some investors don't put their eggs in one basket and lean towards other
companies with parenting capital distribution.
Now for the guy with a $2800 Lp that can't stay in tune.... he needs a setup
or it could depend on the song key, cheap strings or just his playing.
Some guys who detune a lot don't realize hard fretting makes them out of tune.
Either that, or he may need to look at a Gibson LP Robot guitar
Epi LP's and guitars are great, but nowhere near the build construction, materials etc as a Gibbie LP Custom. According to Gibson builders
8) +1 on well made Gibsons and Fender USA, etc.... I played a new ES339 all weekend. Tobacco burst with a 58 profile neck and 57 pups...WOW! cool fiddle ...now my SGs had her feeling hurt for awhile LOL
Ok lets say you buy an \"overpriced\" Gibby with block and binding archtop or whatever you spend about 3 grand...you get a 300 dollar price drop after you buy it but thats it...5 years later you sell it for at least what you paid... I have a SG standard I bought in 2006 for 950/with case. NEW @ my GC in town It goes for $1450 now, so I can get most everything back already if I sold it on ebay I bet. ex: http://cgi.ebay.com/2006-Gibson-USA-SG-Standard-Heritage-Cherry-MINT_W0QQitemZ320210494734QQihZ011QQcategoryZ47073QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
...I cant say that about my other PRC or Korean fiddles. IMHO...if you have a few bucks extra to invest they are really not such a bad deal
Now if you cant keep your expensive well made guitar it tune go set it up professionally and i bet unless its a factory defect it will. no exuse for out of tune guitars even cheap ones if there setup correctly with a decent nut and bridge. Just my lame 2 cents worth. :roll:
I know...I know...Ive been smoking the gibson pipe these past few years
Never said an Epi compares to a gibby just that mine has no tuning problems. I had it set up by a luthier.
You prefer Ibanez, or an Epi over a Gibson? ODB is right about Gibsons keeping their value.
I don't have anything against say, an Ibanez as I even owned a few, and still own an Ibanez bass, but for quality I go for Gibson. True they are very exspensive, but 20 years from now It'll still sound awesome and still have value.
Buuuut...few of us have the $ to lay out 3 grand for a fiddle, especially you married/family guyz. Try explaining THAT purchase to the Mrs. :shock: If you're looking for a good-playing git'r, you can get a fine fiddle for a grand and change. Ibanez, Jackson, Dean, ESP, et al, give you good bang for the buck. Even an Epiphone is a better value.
So if you're \"investing\" in a git'r and you've got the bux - or your wife will \"let\" you - then yeah, a Gibson is a fine git'r. But holding it's value doesn't make it a good ax - ask all those guys who paid 3 grand for a poorly setu-up Gibson and can't stand playing it. They'll be happy in ten years but aren't diggin' it now. AND they have to listen to the wife harp about how they spent all that cake for a git'r. :?
By the way on of my finest playing and sounding git'rs is the late 70's Ibanez Musician; and it's worth more now than when I got it...
But who would spend 3 G's on a poorly set up axe anyway? Before making such a large purchase, you have to at least try it out and know what you're paying for.
Told the old lady \"I work my ass off, I've wanted one for 40 years, and I'm gonna get it\"..
She agreed..LOL...
and yep...
It's awesome...
But there's a BIG difference between laying down 3 bills for a standard issue Gibson no different from the other 20,000 they made that year, and laying out thousands for a classic design that has stood the test of time and that is in perfect shape.
And I don't even HAVE a wife to explain it to.
I only have my one Gibson and it's a big deal to me at this point with a kid in college and one in preschool that I weazeled it outta my very modest budget.
I have a Fender Tele Standard (MIM) in layaway to hotrod and have fun with too...(I am so hooked on Teles since i got that 40 dollar noname onelast year). I'm stealin it for $250.00 and I still had to put it in layaway :oops: so yea I dont mean to sound all snoby about High end guitars I just finally have one and now realize it was so way worth the cash. It brings a smile to my face every time I take it out.
TAL your my hero...and also to blame for my Gibson infatuation...after hearing yours it really gave me G.A.S.
What do you guys think about the new LP 'Robot':
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/03/gibson-launching-self-tuning-guitars-rockers-rejoice/
I try to tune by ear and most of the time have to break out the digital tuner. I bet you it's heavy.
Next week I'm getting a \"VG Strat\"...just for grins...everyone I know was aware of my lust for this guitar, so they all gave me GC gift certificates for my birthday!...got over half the price of the ax just in gifts !
I played one of these in CO last trip, and it was mighty tasty. But I'm holdin' out for my '355... 8)