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Learning to do vocals too. Read this for a laugh.

It has been a while since I have posted, some of you may remember, but I have only posted a couple of tracks. I am looking for input from any of you that do vocals as well as guitar. Over the last couple months I have decided to take up doing vocals in addition to guitar. I have been playing over 17 years but I have never really done singing accept on those rare occasions when I am not playing guitar at church and can actually sing with the congregation.
Lately I have become completely fed up with not being able to get together with anyone who wants to make the kind of music I want to make and I have decided I will have to take it on myself to do everything. - incuding singing. I am looking for tips for a guy like me to get the ball rolling. It is not easy to find a real vocal instructor in my neck of the woods.
Here is what I have done so far and am looking for help on: Singing Scales- I warm up singing major scale intervals 1-2-3-4-5 up in half steps starting at G on the low E string and working my way up. I have identified my range to be pretty much into between that G and the G on the high E string. I find it almost impossible to sing down as far as the low open E. I can get up to the C or even sometimes the D (10th fret) on the high E, but it tends to get rather \"cartoonish\" sounding if I go above the A (5th fr.).
Does anyone have any suggestions on extending my range lower and/or higher while maintaining a timbre that does not sound silly? Of course some of those silly sounds will actually work with heavy metal, but not everything.
I also got an instruction DVD from Rockhouse method that came in at the end of last week. I have not too much with the exercises there yet, just watched it through. Some of them are good, but some seem a bit goofy.
--Now comes the funny part. I have joined up with the local Barbershop Quartet style mens singing group. :oops: On the one hand, I find this completely at odds with my head banging sensibilities and an afront to all thing metal. On the other hand, I actually do find it kind of fun. :roll: I am singing the lead and some of the tenor parts and it is helping me to be able to identify harmony parts more quickly. Has anyone ever done this type of thing before and did it help them?
Today I sang harmonies in the worship team at church for the first time during service. At least no one complained 8) .
This brings me to my last point- singing and playing. This is no walk in the park! I do ok with slow basic struming, but I cannot even begin to IMAGINE singing over the rhythms for Holy Wars like Dave Mustaine. I can play them well enough but sing? Even stuff like James Taylor would be too much for me. Does anyone have any insights into this or some handy tricks?
In another month or so I hope to be doing well enough to sing over some of the metal stuff I have worked on, or write something new and post it with vocals. I would appreciate whatever any of you guitar+vocal types have to say that might assist me. Sorry for the long post.

Comments

  • I feel your pain. I am trying to play bass and sing harmony in our band. I am not a strong singer to begin with, but find that playing bass and singing harmony is a real challenge. It is easier for me to sing lead and play rhythm guitar. Singing harmony takes alot of work.

    I used to sing in school choir and later in church choirs. If you have a good director, you will become a better singer. Just from the practice alone. As far as learning how to sing and play at the same time, I have done it every which way I can imagine. On some songs, I find it easier to learn to play it on guitar first, then add the singing. Other times, I work on the vocals and then add the guitar. And, of course, sometimes I just do both at the same time. I guess it depends on the song and how hard the guitar and/or vocal part is to perform. I do find that playing bass and singing more difficult than playing guitar and singing. But that maybe because I am fairly new at playing bass.

    What I can tell you, from my experience, is that I can only do good at vocals if I can play the guitar/bass without thinking of my hands and where they need to be on the guitar. I really have to concentrate on my vocals to make sure I am on key, or if singing harmony, on the correct note. That means I have to be listening to myself and making sure I am on the correct pitch. I don't have enough brain power left to think about what I am playing. So playing has to be automatic for me. Which means practice, practice, practice.

    Finally, I would suggest starting off with easier songs to play and sing at the same time. Build up your confidence first, then build up to the more complex songs/vocals. Record yourself and listen to the playback afterwards. You will probably be your worst critic, but don't get discouraged. I have had many a take that I thought was dead on and then I listened to the playback and dumped the whole track. I have a GNX4, and I am able to add one instrument at a time. When I sing vocals, I put on my headphones which really helps me to keep pitch because the monitoring is much clearer.

    My final thought is that you have to \"feel\" your voice and pitch as well as actually being able to hear it. I practiced harmonies on one song with the band until I could feel exactly where the correct pitch was. When we went out and played live at a local club, their monitors did not work much at all. I sang where it felt right and fortunately for us, the mix out front was OK. But I could not hear myself at all through their PA setup with the monitors. It scared me half to death to sing and not be able to hear myself.

    You can't go wrong by working on your singing and playing live. Lots of people can play an instrument, but most working bands need backup singers to help the lead vocalist. It really adds something to the band's sound. If I can get to the point where I am a strong backup singer, I will be happy - and much more valuable to the band. Best wishes.
  • I also feel your pain. I'm a feeble vocalist and struggle to sing well in the first place, let alone while playing an instrument. :oops:
    That said - I think the barbershop 1/4tet is a good idea. Chances are it'll teach you a lot about harmony and what your own voice can do.
    I agree w/'taus about playing...the best thing to do is find rythmically simple songs, and learn to play them. Really well. Without having to think about it. When you're really comfortable with playing a song, you can sing without having to think about what your hands are doing. Then, when you sing with it, you get a feel for what they sound like together, then that starts to become natural.
    So, what I'm sayin' is...practice practice practice. Do I sound like your mom yet? :oops:
  • This is quite a good question Michael, probably something that not many people think about analytically. I've been singing/playing for a long time now and I front a 3 piece band at the moment so my guitar parts are fairly crucial to the band sound. But this is what I have found after many hard sessions....

    Firstly, the guys are right by saying you need to get to a level of comfort when you're not actually thinking about what you're playing. Furthermore, while its hard enough to think about what you are playing, usually you have to think about what the guys in the band are doing too. So playing your songs with some consistency every night seems to be crucial eg. song length, speed etc etc. If these are wack then you can get thrown off. I find practising with MIDI files are a big help, even though many people hate them. If you use these at home you at least have a consistent backing to work from - no drunk drummers changing speeds etc! You'll find after a while your playing will become as regimented (second nature) as the MIDI and you can concentrate on your singing.

    Secondly, don't over play while you're singing. Lots of bands do this which makes their sound messy especially with 2 guitars. Use your solo time for all your tricky guitar work and leave the rest for the vocals. Just use a good, solid rhythm to support your voice - not fight it. Nothing pisses vocalists off more than having a screaming guitar over the top of a voice - so don't do it to yourself....

    Thirdly, your on stage sound/mix is important - you need to hear what your voice is doing. Nothing worse than thinking you sang well only to hear a recording and realise you've been off key since first break! :lol: Choose a guitar tone (frequencies) that blends well with your voice while singing and another for solos to get out front. If you have a narky tone while you're singing it not only overides your voice, but it forces you to think about controlling it which in turn screws up your singing. This goes for foldback sound too - set a level and sound which gives you confidence, not make you hesitant.

    Fourthly, choose songs that are kind to your voice and put together a songlist that allows you to last the whole night. Otherwise you run outta puff! Having bandmembers who can sing harmony and back you up is a great help. If you stuff up they can cover you. Even let them sing a song or two to give you a break, be humble and let them stretch out!

    Lastly, don't be too hard on yourself performance wise - getting better is what makes music fun for the whole band, it gets easier with time for sure.

    Overall, make your guitar playing support your singing not compete with it. Make your playing awsome when it counts (eg solos) and it will add to your performance as a singing musician and give the band sound polish. Then ask the band to shout the next round for making them look good!! :D:D

    Sorry if this is long but I hope it helps! 8)
  • Two things I would recommend
    1) Do not look at the fretboard while playing, close you eyes, look away or better yet-play in the dark when you practice...this will make your fingerings become second nature
    2) Breathe DEEP...inhale as much air as you can initially and between phrases, then you let it out in a slow & controlled manner (using your diaphragm to sing, instead of your vocal cords.

    And your on the right track with singing and playing your scales...plus try to improvise some guitar and match the notes vocally.

    One other tip, put a foam ear protector in one ear when practicing vocals (it will let you hear the vibrations in your head, and highlight pitch discrepancies)

    Sing along to music every chance you get (in the car etc...)

    Ok, that was 4 things :)
  • \BettyBoo\ wrote:
    ...I find practising with MIDI files are a big help, even though many people hate them. If you use these at home you at least have a consistent backing to work from - no drunk drummers changing speeds etc! You'll find after a while your playing will become as regimented (second nature) as the MIDI and you can concentrate on your singing...

    I am a big midi file fan for practice. The benefits of midi compared to mp3 backing tracks are that you can change the tempo of the midi song without changing pitch. So it is very easy to slow the song way down to learn the guitar part and then bring it back up to tempo when you start praticing the vocals. With midi players, you also have the option of changing the key you want to sing in. It is more important to sing the songs in your key than to play them in the original key if it is uncomfortable for you. Like someone else said, if you front a band, you will be singing all night.

    There are programs that allow you to change tempo and/or pitch with audio (non-midi) files. They work great within a limited range of change but the further you go from the original key, you end up with \"Micky Mouse\" vocals on the audio, or \"Darth Vader\" if you drop the key alot. Here is a free time-stretch program I have found very useful. Best Practice is the program: http://www.xs4all.nl/~mp2004/bp/

    I find Karaoke (without vocals) files work best with the time stretching programs. Best wishes.
  • You have a 3 octave range? That's incredible! Unless the high G is in falsetto, in which it's perfectly normal... :wink:
    I think that it's all about practise. Practise harmonising and singing to anything and everything - for instance i regularly create harmonies with the hum of machinery.... :roll:
  • thanks everyone for your valuable input. I will try to take all of what you have said into consideration when I practice. The DVD I ordered came with a practice CD which I will use in the car. The guys from the quartet group are supposed to give me some practice CDs so I will use those in the car too, as well as at home. As for my natural range vs. falsetto, I'm not really sure how that is measured. If I sing in my natural voice from the low G on (G3 in scientific pitch notation) to G5, then in my mind that would really only cover 2 octaves. If I could only sing up to the open G then wouldn't that be covering only one octave? Anyway my voice breaks to falsetto above the G5 (on the high E). The funny thing is, after I break to falsetto, I can't get back to my natural voice when I get back to the G, I have to reach below it first to get it back - sometimes down to the D (on the B string). I asked the director at the quartet group and he says this is normal. It just seems kind of weird though. Does anyone have suggestions for easier modern types of rock songs to start working on that are within my range? I could burn a CD and practice those in the car too. Thanks for all the replies.
  • Here's how I learned to play and sing at the same time..I had never sang while playing (or even really tried to sing) at all up untill about 2 years ago....I had a hard time finding ways to get used to doing both at the same time..So I started playing sclaes and running through chords while talking in and out of time from what ever I was doing..After a bit of doing this I was able to play and say whatever I wanted to , now I just needed to try it and sing instead of talk...Here I started trying to harmonize with scales (on A Keyboad fist then guitar) to get used to hitting the correct pitches......And after a bit of doing this for a bit it started getting easier to sing....It didn't take real long to get used to doing both Singing and playing at the same time the part that took a while was learning to actually sing and use the diaphram correctly...Which I still work on just about every day here and there in one way or another....


    hopefully this helps you out if you try it........It worked fo me and didn't take too long over all.....
  • Either you sing-yes, or sing no, grasshopper. Your best instructor is also your worst critic, ie. yourself.The GNX4 IS THE BEST TOOL I HAVE EVER SEEN FOR LEARNING. Record a drum rythm trac of songs you want to do. Then , sing /record to the tracs using headphones[ to keep the peace, and not display your Clams to the rest of the house.] It will be obvious to you, wether you're ON or not, when you play-back your effort. Thats why there's a Delete button. You've got 8 trax to play with, do several takes, trying different styles/vocal tricks and see what sounds good to you, and people whose opinion you trust. Do the same song vocal 6 ways,[assuming 2 trax are for drums/rythm] .silence all but one, listen, and compare,one at a time and you'll see what works for you. I have been singing /playing since '65, and for about 15 years, pickin' and singin' was my sole means of support. So-- practicing scales etc. is all right for opera/classical and Barbara Streisand, but what do you learn, how to sing a scale? When do you hear that at a rock concert? Wildmann 8)
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