Attn luthiers and ax-masters! NEED TUNER HELP!
Hey all...you may recall me trying to choose between to pretty decent git'rs recently (http://www.guitarworkstation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6582).
Well...after putting a pair of DiMarzio PAF Pro's into the Ibanez, I've decided it's the git'r I prefer: plays nicer, looks nicer, sounds great with the new D/M's.
BUTT!!! :?
That git'r still has great difficulty staying in tune. While I can bend and stretch on the Jackson (locking nut, F/Rose locked in place, w/fine tuners,) it NEVER goes out of tune. But the Ibanez goes out of tune if you finger a funny chord. :evil: :evil:
I've tried the usual things: new strings; graphite at the nut under the strings; tightening and loosening the tuning peg resistance...
What's a feller to do??? I HATE being out of tune, and I HAAAATE tuning. :evil: :evil:
Well...after putting a pair of DiMarzio PAF Pro's into the Ibanez, I've decided it's the git'r I prefer: plays nicer, looks nicer, sounds great with the new D/M's.
BUTT!!! :?
That git'r still has great difficulty staying in tune. While I can bend and stretch on the Jackson (locking nut, F/Rose locked in place, w/fine tuners,) it NEVER goes out of tune. But the Ibanez goes out of tune if you finger a funny chord. :evil: :evil:
I've tried the usual things: new strings; graphite at the nut under the strings; tightening and loosening the tuning peg resistance...
What's a feller to do??? I HATE being out of tune, and I HAAAATE tuning. :evil: :evil:
Comments
Here's a couple of ideas:
Because your Ibanez is a hardtail, the issue has to be in the neck because it is the only part that can physically alter the tension of your strings by moving/flexing. Necks can move for a few reasons. Firstly, temperature and humidity can make a neck flex. For instance, cold dry air will pull your guitar sharp because the neck timber tightens; hot humid air will generally make your guitar a little flat because the timber loosens. You generally notice this neck flex with any guitar, especially gigs on a cold night.
Secondly, the dreaded truss rod. I've found truss rods in some guitars to be a bit temperamental. The question is whether or not your guitars truss rod is holding the tension it has been adjusted to. I've had truss rods sitting neutral - kinda not pulling either way - so this allows the neck to flex a little on its own accord. Depends on the thread in the truss rod bolt. Hence you tune the guitar, you play a chord and the truss tension shifts the tiniest bit and ya outta tune. This repeats each time you tune it! Its only minute but it can affect things.
Thirdly, string guage which is pretty obvious if you change a guage. But you can also use a different sort/brand of the same guage and find your truss rod will be out due to the tension change. This will depend on what your strings are made of. Some metals are soft, they stretch more meaning less tension on your neck. Stiffer metals do the opposite. For example, I normally use 10/46 Slinky's but thought I would try D'Addario classic rocks and my old les paul really protested. As far as I know (or was told) the extra nickel makes the strings softer so the initial tension of the string in relation to the truss rod will be different. (I could be mixed up there though...). However, I've also had guitars be outta tune to start with then settle in to a new string type after a few days after the neck settles. Spooky!
Whatever you do with the truss rod, give the neck time to settle in to your adjustment - it may be over night or a few days. You normally find your adjustment is too great once the neck truly settles - just nip your adjustment back a little.
Oh, the other thing could be your saddle adjustment etc.
I've had lots of these issues over the years and with the help of techies I've found its always been one of these problems.
Hope this helps buddy! 8)
BBoo
Tuners good and tight ? Nice wrap on the tuner posts ?
A bit off the direct subject, I was taught a couple good habits for tuning...One is to rest the body of the guitar on the thigh, neck hanging on it's weight...keep still in that position while tuning. This is especially true during final tune sequence after a bridge adjustment.
Headstock tuners should always be tuned tight to the sharp direction, never accept a slack tune to the flat direction.
The same holds true for truss rods, last move is always to put the pressure on if possible. The bridge adjustment is done from sharp to flat, or tightening the saddle in a direction away from the nut.
Hodge - good tips, but already taken into account.
My strings are of the same gauge I've always used (D'Addario 10's) and stretched when the git'r is strung. And I always tune up, not down.
For more info for you all:
All the strings are going out, not just one.
I've got a good wrap on the pegheads.
My tuners are tightened for good grip.
Please help...this has turned into a mighty nice git'r, but if I hate to play it because of constant out-of-tune, it's all for nil. :evil:
I might have to start playing punk music...you're SUPPOSED to be out of tune, right?? :roll:
The other issue is that I live a zillion miles from anything, so there's nothing like a git'r tech around here. Just that guy who sits on the porch with his banjo and a stalk of grass hanging out of his mouth while he drools on his overalls.
I'm a decent git'r mechanic, but I'm no tech geenyus....I need all the ideas I can get. Please help me save my beloved Ibanez...
Hey dude, I may be (re) stating the obvious, but in the absence of a locking nut, I have installed schaller locking tuners on all of my (non FR) fiddles.
I have a mexi strat with the vintage trem, and I had the same problem. If I so much as breathed on the bridge/trem bar...it went out of tune faster than an ethiopian chicken.
I installed a graph-tech nut (highly recommended) and installed schaller locking tuners, now I can do whammy dives that would make EVH proud. Obviously this is not the only issue that can cause tuning instability, but if you have all of the other bases covered, for about $50, locking tuners are an excellent investment.
This may sound retarded, but I've seen this many times. READ THE MAN. INSTRUCTIONS ABOUT HOW TO PROPERLY INSTALL STRINGS ON LOCKING TUNERS. Remember, it is the opposite of regular tuners, DO NOT wrap the strings around the tuner more than 1/2-3/4 of a turn. All of that string wound around the tuner is actually the enemy, when it comes to tuning stability.
These are my thoughts, not yours :P
Dobb.
P.S. My little sister (34) is single, attractive (I'm told), and would probably fit your bill pretty well (no pun intented). In exchange for a brand new Ibanez gem and a Taylor 814ce, I will promptly mail her to you.
I'm grasping at straws maybe, but...
if the strings are binding at the nut...could be the source of trouble.
Ummm...will your Jackson machines fit your Ibanez?
One way to rule out worn machines. :P
As far as the Jax tuners, or any others...I haven't considered replacing them yet, since it's such a new git'r; the tuners are new, and smooth, tight, and consistent (like the woman I long for
Today I loosened up the strings and cleaned out the nut slots :shock: ...with a teeny file and a scrap of fine sandpaper, and put the strings back with some graphite under 'em.
It's not all the way better, but better enough for me to think that's the problem. I'll probably take another crack at it when the coffee wears off.
'course, you married guyz all know how much it sucks to have binding at your nut... :shock:
This may not help you, but some other things I have discovered over the years: Paying for a professional setup may be worth the extra money. I had an Ibanez that arrived from MF that was completely unplayable. It would not hold tune nor was it in tune with itself. It drove me crazy and I was going to send it back. My brother-in-law thought the guitar had alot of potential so he convinced me to spend a few extra $$ to get it setup up properly at the local guitar shop. I could not believe the difference it made when I got the guitar back. Not only did he fix the massive intonation problem, but the guitar now stays in tune for a long time. I know he had to adjust the truss rod and work on the nut at a minimum. Now it has become our most used guitar for live playing.
The other thing I recently learned is that gauge/type of string also makes a difference. Our lead guitarist was trying out a nice Epi Hollow Body (first thing he did was put his favorite strings on it) but it would go out of tune every song. He talked to the owner about the problem and the owner told him what gauge and type of stings he needed for that guitar. He changed out the strings and that made a world of difference - no more tuning problems. I know that heavier strings seem to stay in tune better, but the real issue on that guitar was the type of string used. I guess not all brands of the same gauge are made the same. So our lead guitarist ended up selling his other electric and bought the Epi. He is really happy with it.
Hope you got your problem solved. Lots of good info in this thread from everybody. Take care.
When i got this thing, the first thing I did was put the strings on that I like, then do a full set up: truss rod first, then intonation, then action adjustments.
It plays just fine, good action, no buzzes, in tune up n down the neck. I can tune it to a cent. What it WON'T do is stay in tune.
That's what I'm addressing now...if I can do that, then this is my main ax. If not, I might have to go the pro setup route. Problem is - there isn't a decent git'r shop within 500 miles of where I live. :evil:
Tou is right on the money I think. Email that man a beer!! 8)
I asked a tech at a dealer who sells Ibanez and the first thing he said was nut binding. After I noticed he wasn't grabbing his crotch and pulling faces, I realised he was talking guitars and I thought thats fairly logical. He said just keep trimming/filing the grooves until its good and stays in tune. Easy. Plus you won't have to travel 500 miles to fix it - sweet.
As for us married guys - there are other lubricants besides graphite that help to fix binding at the nut!
Better Living Through Chemistry. Thank heaven for cooperative and understanding women! (so where's mine?!? :? )
Sometimes a small truss rod tightening will remove tuning instability
I think 'tou nailed it; I worked on the nut a but and it improved right away; I think if I work on it very precisely or even have a pro do it, the problem might go away.
Then again, that could be wishful thinking, since I really want the problem to go away so I can stop thinking about giving up on this ax. I like it.
www.earvanna.com
Sometimes it helps to understand the scope of the problem, from reflecting upon it in different ways.
I took your advice, and decided no amount of work is going to corrrect the nut job to blame for this problem...
Have you tried a paper clip and some string? That always worked for McGyver.
OH WOW...that is a problem!...................................
Now if I could find someone to lend me nut files (or spend the 200 bux for a full set), I could really clean them out nice. Either that, or find someone who can work on git'rs to replace the cheezy nut with something quality. :roll:
But I think I've got my answer, which is great, since I can keep my Ibanez...if I can dial it in, I'll be \"liberating\" my Jackson Performer.
'Course, I also need to get the DiMarzio's I put in into proper alignment (for some reason, when I put them in, they're about 2mm off-center...they still sound fine, but I want each pole piece to be exactly under each string, instead of slightly off...)
I need a git'r tech. :shock: