Our misplaced obsession with tone

groovy

With my IPOD library growing to the limits that my device can handle, I decided to pare down some of the duplicate songs that any library usually accumulates over time.

I found that at times, I had 5-12 versions of some songs. These are various different live performances, outtakes etc of the same song.

For example, I have 7 versions of SRV's texas flood and 8 versions of You made me Real by the Doors.

I needed to decide which version to keep and reject the rest. So I started listening to the intro of each song.

I found that even the greatest of the great like SRV, Queen, The Doors , Guns and Roses sound different live as compared to their studio recordings.

And they sound different at each different venue !!!!

And they also sound different when they play at the same venue twice !!!!


I mentioned \"You made me real\" earlier because the studio recording on morrison hotel, the Doors used a piano for the intro, but live at the ampitheatre, the intro is performed on guitars. Talk about sticking to a tone !!!


To top it all, they dont care about tempo either. Some of the live recordings are way off the temp of their studio recordings.


Dont even begin talking about key !!!


These great bands are not so obsessed with tone as us. They are interested in making music.

We normally always hear their studio recording and always try to recreate that exact tone in our homes and our live performances. The greats are not mentally handcuffed by trying to duplicate their own studio tone

and hence are free to make music !!!

T L F

Hey....Great comment. I have a friend who owns a good Martin Acoustic, a few simple effects and an amp. He doesn't even know about most of the stuff available out there and doesn't really care. He spends all his time learning new songs and increasing his technical proficiency instead of looking for the \"holy grail\" ( that doesn't exist) of that perfect tone. The industry pushes the next best thing and obviously wants us to concentrate on the tools that are \"all of a sudden going to make us play better\" in lieu of concentrating on the craft...I recently \"stopped\" waiting for the next big thing when I came to the realization that my tone is fine, it is me that needs to improve, not the tools. ( I was proud that I went to Guitar Centers' memorial day sale and came out with nothing) ..Again, great comment...

SlashNBurn99

Yep Groovy ur correct.

That why I never try to replicate any artists tone, I go by my ear and if it sounds good to me then who cares what others think.

This whole tube amp vs Digital is nonsense aswell, they all sound good to me.

Aslong as you can play pretty good then you can get a decent tone out of anythin

Manitou

I agree to a point. I need to justify the stuff I own...or I'll have to openly admit...I suck.
For me...I am still not as advanced as ya'll and I am convinced yet that
it is the fault of my pick all the way to my pickups.
If I can only buy this or that...then I can.... :roll:

Joking aside...you are right.
I sound better when I'm not trying so hard as well....and just begin to \"feel\" the music.
Little flaws...so to speak can add more flavor to the tone...
hard to duplicate...and maybe brings out a players true style and personality.

Of course...you still need to reach a level of musicality.
If it isn't coming from inside you...it is missing the mojo.
I hear a lot of musicians who strum and pick very modestly,
and capture something as deeply moving as the masterful virtuoso's.

I still suck...I don't know what it is yet.
I am reminded of the movie \"The Jerk\"..... When will I \"get it?\"

(...stomp pause..clap...clap..pause..off beat clap..I'm too white??) :oops:

shredd

You guys are hilarious. But I'm with 'tou...if I didn't have some decent equipment, it'd be WAY too easy to tell that I can't play worth a dang. Or at least not well enough to inspire hordes of adoring groupies.
The funny thing is (back to the gist of this thread) is that I do 90% of my playing on 10% of my presets. They're just my faves.

thehootman

I dont really care for live tone, simply because in the context of my performances, I do not have the time or resources to get it right for every venue/setup. I also find the audience doesnt really notice anyway. They will not jump up and say: \"wow! That tone is spot on a '69 plexi!! You just made my day!!\"

insideout

\thehootman\ wrote:

I also find the audience doesnt really notice anyway. They will not jump up and say: \"wow! That tone is spot on a '69 plexi!! You just made my day!!\"

That's exactly right. Most people in the audience wouldn't know thier plexi from their vox :shock: . Every band I've been in... we could have our worst night ever - nothing clicking, chemistry just not there - and the bloodshot eyed, drunken crazy's in the audience still come up afterword and insist \"THAT WAS AWESOME DUDE\" and then go throw up in the parking lot.

To me, live tone isn't about the audience - the occasional musician out there will get it, but the majority don't care. Live tone is about ME!! If it sounds like crap, I play like crap. If I like what I hear, I play better.

partch

\insideout\ wrote:

\thehootman\ wrote:

I also find the audience doesnt really notice anyway. They will not jump up and say: \"wow! That tone is spot on a '69 plexi!! You just made my day!!\"

That's exactly right. Most people in the audience wouldn't know thier plexi from their vox :shock: . Every band I've been in... we could have our worst night ever - nothing clicking, chemistry just not there - and the bloodshot eyed, drunken crazy's in the audience still come up afterword and insist \"THAT WAS AWESOME DUDE\" and then go throw up in the parking lot.

To me, live tone isn't about the audience - the occasional musician out there will get it, but the majority don't care. Live tone is about ME!! If it sounds like crap, I play like crap. If I like what I hear, I play better.

Well said Rob 8)

thehootman

When things go to the crapper with the performance i just do a solo behind my head. All the fools in the audience go \"Oh my god!! Awesome\" and forget about the fact that the band stuffed right up......

Tal Rules

To get great tone you need the following 3 items, and that's it... 8)









And as my buddy AC pointed out...
Enough practice to get 90% of your tone from these, no matter what rig you're playing on...




Really...

shredd

The topic having wandered over to the importance of ability over techincal proficiency or tools...I'd like to relay the anecdote of my earliest years of git'r playing.
I was in high school (no we weren't drawing on cave walls!!!), and a friend of mine who could really rip owned an utterly tasty Les Paul. I, of course, being a poor ghetto boy, had the classic $129 copy, that I could've saved a bunch of money on by just hacking one out of a tree trunk with a chain saw. :roll:
So I was sure that he played so well 'cuz of his tasty axe...if ONLY I had such a gem!
So the end of the story is predictable - he come over to my house once and picked up my crappy copy and just shredded it. Taught me a good lesson, early on, but didn't quite cure my G/A/S... :?

On the upside, I did bag his g/f once... :twisted: perhaps my inablilty to play is Karma for that...

Manitou

I remember a day when a guitar or an amp made all the difference in tone.
One guitar of the same year, make, and model could have a completely different sound.

Todays amps and guitars are not so unique. I don't know why exactly...if it is a difference in mass production, vs. hand craftsmanship, or woods and parts used, etc.

I hear certain pickup winders even to this day, are able to create a pickup unique to their craftsmanship. There are still custom craftsman building unique tone in their amps or instruments...if you can afford them. With modelers, how much does it even matter anymore?

It really still only comes down to the artist, and what that artist can bridge through his heart, soul and hands....that is the bottom line.

0Dannyboy

Y ou can only blame so much on your gear. Don't get so caught up in your next must have purchase and forget to actually play! :oops:

Thas what I loved about my GNX3. It got you right into making and recording your ideas and your own music.. The techology didnt get in the way of a good idea. so when you finally got around to tweekin somthing it was because you had just writen a killa jam first :!: :twisted:

My vocalist live 2 gets hear today and thats what i am expecting from it as well. get right down to writing and jammin.

agelessrocker

One thing I'd like to add is that there is a huge difference between the tone you seek when recording, and in a live gig, especially if there are two guitarists in your band.

My studio rig is nothing like my live rig, it really depends on the application as to which tones to go after....my JCM800 stays on the road, and my GNX4 and GFX1 stay in the studio. just my two cents

Ian

You're right about different setups, on stage I use a Peavey amp and the only effects I use are a chorus pedal and a compressor. I just bought the RP350 a few weeks ago, for recording, but wouldn't use it on stage. I may have to buy a wah wah pedal though, I'm getting a bit addicted.
Ian