Trying but not good enough?????

tommygunn

Hello all, real newby here since I just got my GNX4 a few days ago. Love it and it just blows me away......

I have a friend of a friend that I heard playing a 65 strat with an old degitech unit (80's I think) but anyhow I thought I was listening to a steel guitar when he first started to play at a Jam I play in. I was at the bar with my back to him when he started to play lead in a country song and I had the suprise of my life when I went to see who was playing a steel guitar. I want that sound or effect.

So, here is my question, does anyone have a patch that would allow me to do this. I have been experimenting but can't quite get the proper effect that I want. Still learning about this amazing unit so any help would be greatly appreciated or point me in the direction where I can get this patch. I think with what I have seen of this unit and what I have been reading I am sure that the GNX4 is quite capable of playing a steel guitar sound.

Thanks alot
Tommy

DrMike

Have you tried the factory preset ?

There's one that comes with the unit.

tommygunn

\DrMike\ wrote:

Have you tried the factory preset ?

There's one that comes with the unit.

Thanks DrMike for your response. If you are referring to the PDLSTEEL preset that is the preset that I was working with to give me the sound I wanted. The default just does not do it for me and since it is there I know now that someone out there like yourself who really knows what they are doing ....lol may have a preset that they have created that might just be the cup of tea I am looking for. I have been playing with other factory presets and just don't quite have that knack to come up with what I want. Well you know what I mean but I will keep trying as every time I switch the unit on I learn something knew about it. Great unit.

Thanks again for you response.

philflood

When trying to emulate a pedal steel sound, there is a great need for good technique. Think about how a pedal steel is played. First off, you have a slide bar that slurs betwen notes. That could be programmed into a GNX4 patch as pitch shift that is activated by the expression pedal (whammy). But, the other technique that pedal steel players use is a volume swell using a volume pedal. More likely than not, you want to have the Expression pedal controlling a volume function, rather than a pitch shifting function. If you play in an open tuning, with a slide, you should be able to get a pretty convincing pedal steel sound using the pedal steel preset, with the expression pedal acting a volume control. Since we can't know exactly what your friends rig sounded like, it's real hard to give ideas for specific tweaks beyond that.

tommygunn

\philflood\ wrote:

When trying to emulate a pedal steel sound, there is a great need for good technique. Think about how a pedal steel is played. First off, you have a slide bar that slurs betwen notes. That could be programmed into a GNX4 patch as pitch shift that is activated by the expression pedal (whammy). But, the other technique that pedal steel players use is a volume swell using a volume pedal. More likely than not, you want to have the Expression pedal controlling a volume function, rather than a pitch shifting function. If you play in an open tuning, with a slide, you should be able to get a pretty convincing pedal steel sound using the pedal steel preset, with the expression pedal acting a volume control. Since we can't know exactly what your friends rig sounded like, it's real hard to give ideas for specific tweaks beyond that.

Hey philflood, great info and really appreciated from this newbie here. I was wondering if I could simulate the slide bar effect on one of the control pedals a, b or c and still keep the volume pedal as a volume pedal. I would then have to be in the stompbox mode to do this I think. Well this is my way of thinking this out. I am trying to get the steel sound that Neil Young has on his song \"Teach Your Children'
I was hoping that someone might have a preset already created that I could use and play with to teach me how to create this effect. I am a big believer of hands on and the best way to learn is by mistakes.
Merry Christmas all and again thanks for your great great help.
Tom

DrMike

I guess I'm trying to understand what you're trying to achieve. You what a slide effect and volume pedal ? Can't be done. Slide effect is achieved by controlling the pitch bending. Can't do this and control the volume at the same time. You could have a toggle pedal switch you back and forth between them....

Sorry if this is not helpful. If you could describe exactly what you need maybe I or others could be more helpful.

tommygunn

\DrMike\ wrote:

I guess I'm trying to understand what you're trying to achieve. You what a slide effect and volume pedal ? Can't be done. Slide effect is achieved by controlling the pitch bending. Can't do this and control the volume at the same time. You could have a toggle pedal switch you back and forth between them....

Sorry if this is not helpful. If you could describe exactly what you need maybe I or others could be more helpful.

Thanks DrMike. Could I not set up the slide effect that would change the pitch bending say a semitone or 2 semitones on one of the 3 control pedals and add a swell or volume control on the expression pedal or is it that you cannot use a control pedal at the same time as you use the volume expression pedal.

philflood

I think Dr. Mike is right. I looked over the guitar recorded version tab that I have in a CSNY book, and the slides occur on the 2nd and 3rd strings. The GNX4 does not have string sensitive ptich bending. For that you would need a Roland or Axon synth unit. You could program a pedal for pitch shift, but it would not slide into it. It would just be instaneous shift. I think the best bet would be to get an external 2nd pedal for either ptich shift, (which would be a Whammy) or a volume pedal (which would be much cheaper). The problem is that there is not a way to differentiate strings when doing the pitch shifting with a pedal. It is going to shift all of them. It gets back to what does a pedal steel do? It bends selected strings preprogammed amounts based on the pedal selected.


Also, specifically regarding Teach Your Children, it is played quite high. It may be easier to pull off with a guitar in Nashville high tuning, which is basically a 6 string tuned to the high 6 strings of a 12 string. In the song all of the slides are 1 whole tone either up or down, so assuming you only played the note that is being slided, you could do it with a Pitch shift set at 2 (2 semi-tones = 1 whole tone). With some practice, you could do the volume swells with your hand on the volume control, and the tone shift with the Expression Pedal on Whammy. You could also do the tone shift with a trem bar. In those cases, you would not need anything more than the GNX4.

DrMike

There might be a way to do it. I'm not sure cause I have exactly tried it. It would be kind of complicated and may not be perfect... here's my thought:

1. Set pedal B to turn on and off the pitch shift. Make sure to set this pedal to \"momentary\" so you can step on it to bend (up or down depending on what you want... most likely up?) and then release it after the pitch shift.

2. Use one of the LFOs to control the pitch shift. Set it to \"sine\". Set the min and max amounts so that you get the amount of shift you want. Set the speed (I'd guess \"slow\")

That should do it. It won't be perfect. It may not actually work at all. But when you step down on Pedal B you'll activate the pitch shift which will slowly shift the pitch up and down.

The problem seems to be (cause I just tried it to see if it would work) that the oscilators keep going even if you aren't using the effect.

I was going to erase this but I thought I'd go ahead and post it. Maybe it might help...

tommygunn

\DrMike\ wrote:

There might be a way to do it. I'm not sure cause I have exactly tried it. It would be kind of complicated and may not be perfect... here's my thought:

1. Set pedal B to turn on and off the pitch shift. Make sure to set this pedal to \"momentary\" so you can step on it to bend (up or down depending on what you want... most likely up?) and then release it after the pitch shift.

2. Use one of the LFOs to control the pitch shift. Set it to \"sine\". Set the min and max amounts so that you get the amount of shift you want. Set the speed (I'd guess \"slow\")

That should do it. It won't be perfect. It may not actually work at all. But when you step down on Pedal B you'll activate the pitch shift which will slowly shift the pitch up and down.

The problem seems to be (cause I just tried it to see if it would work) that the oscilators keep going even if you aren't using the effect.

I was going to erase this but I thought I'd go ahead and post it. Maybe it might help...

Thanks muchly DrMike for the great input, I will definitely give this a try but unfortunately it will have to be near the end of the week.....well boxing day earliest as soon as the family have gone and I have no one to bug me while I play and create my new master pieces.....haha
Merry Christmas to you and yours from my family
Tom

tommygunn

\philflood\ wrote:

I think Dr. Mike is right. I looked over the guitar recorded version tab that I have in a CSNY book, and the slides occur on the 2nd and 3rd strings. The GNX4 does not have string sensitive ptich bending. For that you would need a Roland or Axon synth unit. You could program a pedal for pitch shift, but it would not slide into it. It would just be instaneous shift. I think the best bet would be to get an external 2nd pedal for either ptich shift, (which would be a Whammy) or a volume pedal (which would be much cheaper). The problem is that there is not a way to differentiate strings when doing the pitch shifting with a pedal. It is going to shift all of them. It gets back to what does a pedal steel do? It bends selected strings preprogammed amounts based on the pedal selected.


Also, specifically regarding Teach Your Children, it is played quite high. It may be easier to pull off with a guitar in Nashville high tuning, which is basically a 6 string tuned to the high 6 strings of a 12 string. In the song all of the slides are 1 whole tone either up or down, so assuming you only played the note that is being slided, you could do it with a Pitch shift set at 2 (2 semi-tones = 1 whole tone). With some practice, you could do the volume swells with your hand on the volume control, and the tone shift with the Expression Pedal on Whammy. You could also do the tone shift with a trem bar. In those cases, you would not need anything more than the GNX4.

Wow thanks philflood between you and DrMike I don't need the rest of the forum to answer my newbie questions. Philflood again thankyou for your great info, between what you and DrMike have told me I can't wait to get into seeing what I can create for a steel preset. Like I said to DrMike I will have to wait until after Christmas. I had my system all set up in my family room where I had to remove it all to accomodate the gift openning and festivities of Christmas. Thats around 12 people made up of my 3 kids (all grown up and my first grandson --- a month old --- wow) and then also my wifes side of the family. So to keep peace in the family my equipment was tidied up and put away till the earliest I hope boxing day.

Again thank for your great info and support and I do wish you and your family all the best of the season from my family.
Tom