Vai's Ballerina Effect

courtney2018

Hi all,
Has anyone tried to copy the effect of Vai's Ballerina song off of Passion and Warfare? I tried to do it last night, but couldn't get it. I'm wondering if it's even possible with just the GNX4. I'm thinking you'd need an additional effect outside of the GNX4 to make it work.

Thanks.

Manitou

I took a look at this song on Guitar Pro.
I think he is splitting the recorded tracks. He is using a standard tuning clean guitar, and recording two guitar parts. Each guitar part is split into 3 tracks.
#1 both Rt. and Lf. pans ....octave up....with the center normal.
#2 both Rt. and Lf. pans.....normal...with the center octave up.

courtney2018

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you meaning that after he recorded it he took track with the octave effect and moved it forward in time so that there would essentially be a delay between the note plucked on the guitar and the note played by the effect?

I saw him play this live. When he plucked a note it immediately played and then after a little delay the higher note played. I know he was using an Eventide Harmonizer, so maybe I won't be able to accomplish this on the GNX4 - I'm still very new to it. Perhaps if I had a pedal before the GNX4 that took the note I played phased it between left and right, with one side being no effect and the other side being the octave effect.

Any other ideas?

Thanks.

Manitou

Well...I misinterpreted the Guitar Pro. This song is created like you say, with the Eventide Harmonizer. Nice if you have $5,000 to kick around. I know there are cheaper pitch shifters available. Roland makes one, but not nearly as powerful.

I can't see how you can create this song with the GNX...at all. I wouldn't have guessed this was anything but a studio piece. But with the right equipment...which guy's like Steve can afford...you can play it live.

The 12/24 is managed with the Harmonizer setting a stereo harmonized delay program. There are two echos, the first being 180 ms (one sixteenth note) and sounding a major 6th higher. The second delay is set to 360 ms (one eighth note) and is sounding a perfect 4th higher than the original.
The two delayed harmonized signals are panned left and right respectively. The part is played in an 8th note fashion to the delays.

The harmonizer is simply creating his perfect fourth and major sixth above every note, making every \"chord\" a major chord in second inversion.
I guess you normally wouldn't see this as a second inversion, but the Harmonizer is not smart...it is only reacting in response.

partch

:shock: Must be nice to have gear like Vai!!

God Bless!!
Partch

courtney2018

I guess the good news is that the Eventide 3000, the one I grew up drooling over, is now much cheaper than the latest version. Although, they currently don't make the 3000 anymore to my knowledge. They've got a 4000, but the one that really took it's place was the Eclipse. The top of the line model is the 8000. I wonder if someone on Ebay has on real cheap. :roll:

KiLLiN-TiMe

Sure it is!

http://cgi.ebay.com/EVENTIDE-H-3000-D-SE-ULTRA-HARMONIZER-H3000-DSE-3000DSE_W0QQitemZ300038318677QQihZ020QQcategoryZ23790QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

LOL... hope you've got more money than me!

KT

Boogieman_Dan

Don't waste your money on an old Eventide unless you've got it to waste...the Digitech/IVL IPS33B/DHP-33 or DHP-55/Studio 5000 can do 99% of the things from Passion and Warefare to Fire Garden for <$300. Vai used a IPS-33B and DHP-55 for years in his rack along side of the Eventides.




Edit:

I'm about 99% sure that the pitch shifting you hear in Ballerina is a IPS-33B.

Manitou

I don't follow Vai and shouldn't try to guess what he is doing or how,
to add a belated disclaimer. :?
I've read he used the Eventide Harmonizer on Passion and Warfare.
But I don't know for sure...and what he uses on stage??
...I've never been to any Concert of his.

I recently read on the t.c. Electronic site...he is using
the G-System lately...and no longer using a rack mount.
He simplified everything, and went to the floor with his gear.

I think he is using the Carvin VL 100 Legacy amp...
the G-System, and some stompboxes and expression pedals.
Analogman-modded DS-1
Keeley-modded Tube Screamer
MXR EVH Phase 90
Morley Bad Horsie 1 wah

to check out the t.c.Electronic article on Vai...look here

Boogieman_Dan

\Manitou\ wrote:

I recently read on the t.c. Electronic site...he is using
the G-System lately...and no longer using a rack mount.
He simplified everything, and went to the floor with his gear.

LOL! that's simple. :shock:

A simple yet complete set-up to me is a guitar>amp>effects processor(s) in loop>MIDI foot controller>expression pedal(s)

Or

Ibanez S470>loaded Mesa/Boogie MKIII>TC Electronic G-Force*>Rocktron MIDI-MATE>Home-made expression pedal.

*Rocktron Replifex and/or Digitech Studio 5000 added if I needed them.

courtney2018

I’ll have to check out the IPS. I’m not sure what he used the 3000 on with that CD, but I’m sure Alien Water Kiss was one of them. I read somewhere that he used the 3000 and it eventually left his rack as he replaced it with other toys, but the Eclipse had made it back in his rack.

From this site: http://guitargeek.com/rigview/119/ he says his sound pretty much starts off with the Boss DS-1, but this was in 1999. I know he uses Digitech Whammy and a Morley Bad Horsie pedal.