Need advice from you \"high-hour\" players

shredd

OK guys, here's my problem.
A coupla years back I had really bad left elbow problems. Tendonitis, \"tennis elbow\". Lasted forever. It affected, and was affected by, playing guitar.
So this spring I got a cortisone shot in it, cleared up the tendonitis problem. BUT...
I still have a lot of muscle strain in those muscles (on top of my forearm), and also in the ones inside my right elbow. Again, these affect, and are worsened by, playing guitar.
What do you guys who play hours a day do to avoid/resolve stuff like this? (and I'm talking to old guys like me, not you 20-year old shredmonsters).
Any info, advice, opinions would be appreciated. If I can't shredd my guitar, Anna Porno-kova's NEVER gonna return my phone calls. (it's not like she's after my money or anything...)

shando

I'm no expert but I would imagine that as with any other activity that is strenuous you have to \"warm up\" and \"cool down\" so I believe that it would stand with playing the guitar for extended periods of time that you would do best to warm up with gentle limb rotations (wrists, shoulders, neck) etc and stretches before easing into a long session and finish off with something similar. Also trying to maintain a relaxed grip whenever possible. I know that sometimes when I practice I suddenly notice that my right shoulder has hunched up and my left hand is gripping the neck like it's going to run away from me. When I think of it now, coupled with my distorted, grimacing concentration face I must look insane. Further, for shredding I would guess that speed partly comes from relaxed tension. I studied Wing Tsun intensely for some time previously (still do, just not as much) and our speed of movement (punches, footwork etc) came from relaxed tension.

wickerman

I have an old guitar magazine, it has lots of stretches in it for people like u who are/have suffered from tennis elbow and RSI things like that.

Unfortunately i do not have a scanner but i will try and find similiar stretches on the internet, if not i will type the writing but there will be no words

Fortunately it looks like this problem can be overcome and is quite common amongst people.

One thing i remember is that u have to work gradually up to playing long hours, u cant just go from 30 mins to 3 hrs in 1 week.

thehootman

shando is correct about being relaxed. When i was learning Rising Force i was gripping the pick extremely hard and not relaxed at all. The more i kept playing on one session the worse i got at playing. Then i relised i had to relax, and BOOM! \"I hear a rising force...belololololololop (thats the run down, not the vocals)!\"

Also, when i was doing a lot of legato stuff, with heaps of emphasis on my left hand, i began to feel a sharp pain in the back of my hand. I stopped immediately. The pain has never returned.

philflood

I'll be 50 later this month. I've been playing since I was 14. THE NUMBER ONE issue for me to play for a long time is to have a lighweight thin body guitar. The deep bodies wear me out in no time. I can play my Godin Acousticaster for hours. My left hand doesn't usually experience problems.

Mike B

Shredd, Me, I'm going on 51 (October), I play on a Stratocaster, my aches are in my left thumb knuckle, from grabbing the top e-string for bass notes, and my left wrist.

When I know I'll be playing for more than an hour, I take three or four Ibuprofin tablets.

Well how about one of those spongey squeeze balls? Uhh maybe I won't go any further with that one. :roll:

Maybe talk to your Dr. some type of physical therapy?

It aint fun hurtin that's for certain

take care
Mike B

guitar3456

I have carpal tunnel that flares up after extended play. I've minimized it by doing hand exercises and hand massages prior to playing. Ibuprofen works but as a last measure.

philflood

I just remembered this. My instructor when I was kid, Gene Bujnowski, had a problem with arthritis in his left hand. To keep it active and nimble, he learned how to play trumpet left handed. The action of pushing the valves was a similar motion to playing guitar, but the hand was in a slightly different position. It kept him able to play for long time.

shredd

Thanks to one n all...lots of good info and feedback. One thing I do recognize in your experiences is that I'm probably gripping the neck too hard, and probably also \"fingering\" chords very hard.
The problem I'm having is not in my hand or wrist or fingers; it's in the forearm muscles up by the elbow. Very sore, I haven't played for 4 days.

philflood

Shredd,

You might consider a scalloped neck. It takes a lot less force to play on one. Smoove Grooves (I found them on eBay- Smooth Grooves Scallop Service, SGSS) will scallop a basic strat neck for you for about $110. Playing on one for awhile will help you develop a lighter touch for playing on your non-scalloped guitars as well.

shredd

Scalloping? Ugh, I can't bear the thought of marring a fine ax in such a way. 'Sides, I don't think it's my frets/fretboard that makes me death-grip my neck, it's poor technique and lack of concentration on such things (my concentration tends to go into trying to make things sound good, and wondering what face I can make while playing that'll wet Jennifer Aniston's panties...)
Lately, I've been playing short durations, as many days as possible. Usually no more than 30 minutes. A real marathon is unusual for me, unless I'm trying to get something recorded, in which case I have to do 153 takes to get it right. That usually keeps me playing for 2 hours or more, but like I said, that's pretty rare.
The odd thing is, the muscle ache thing seems to come n go. Some days fine, others so sore I can't play or do my work or anything.

So here's another thing : what kind of \"warm up\"/loosen up kind of jams do you guys do, before you really start bearing down and rippin'?

Mike B

Shredd, getting one of those spongey squeeze balls is for building up the strength in the forearm. My mother-in-law had to use one during her physical therapy sessions to aid in a minor stroke recovery. It was a simple but effective exercize: just squeezing the ball 30 minutes a day.

HTH

thehootman

Warm up exercises?
I run through a few scales, quickly, then do a bit of chord chugging, i don t have a problem yet of playing for long time (only 16), so yeah.... :oops:

jscott013

Here's a page that helped me:

http://ergocise.com/wrists.html

Find a sports medicine guy who can offer some good exercise routines. Until then the soft ball (mentioned earlier) and clay for hand strength is good. Try forearm curls with very light weight as well as inverse forearm curls.

You could check this out also:

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/carpal_tunnel/detail_carpal_tunnel.htm#What are the symptoms of carpal tunnel syndrome?

For warm ups consider any slow, repetitive, full range exercise. A slow Arpeggio played until you feel your arm loosen would do. I play an Eminor ditty that makes full use of the neck and forces a comfortable stretch.

shredd

Cool beans - that Ergocise site looks good.
And all you guys who're 16 - dam you and your young, never-aching arms. You problably play better than I do too. So bite me. I'd LOVE to be that young again!!! Maybe then I could go on Rock Star.

shredd

Hey another thing...I was just playin' a bit and had one of those profound revelations.
Bein' an \"old\" guy and having had pretty nasty tinnitus my whole adult life, I'm very senstive to pounding on my hearing any more than necessary, and of course playing guitar ain't the best treatment you can give your ears.
So when I practice or record, I keep the volumes pretty mellow. And when I'm trying to put some \"power\" into a passage or a set of chords, instead of using the power of amplification, I'm gripping and pounding harder.
Anyone ever fall into that trap, or others like it?

shando

Damn it Shredd, don't be a wimp. Play through the pain like a real man, grip harder & play longer to induce more pain, keep playin thru the tears. Build strength in the grip & forearms by throttling small animals, gradually moving up from Hamsters to something like a dog (a Chihuahua say) before gradually increasing in size to a Jack Russell or something. Top tips, don't go so far as a German Shepherd without protection tho as it can all go horribly wrong and leave you scarred & scared for life!!!

No but seriously, check out David Mead's \"Ten Minute Guitar Workout\" or his \"\"Basic Guitar Workout\". I swear by them. You do exercises from three areas - Warm Up, Flexibility & Ear Training. I always use his system as my warm up before I do anything else.

ne1roc

Shredd, I suggest finding a Rush lovin' hottie who can massage your forearm everytime it starts acting up!

partch

Shredd,
I don't know if that's all of it?? But could be some of it. Our Rythem Guitarist plays very furiously at times and before he got his new amp he was breaking alot of strings and realy playing hard. Because he could not hear himself well. Since he has the new amp he breaks alot less strings and he still has that aggressive strumming style but not quite as hard and overdoing it because he hears himself on the platform. Anyhow when you were talking about the Low Volumes and stuff that came to mind. So crank it up and let it rip!!!!
God Bless!!!
Partch

thehootman

You could also use headphones, they can sound much louder without doing as much damage to your ears. If you are in a band you can jam with a mixer, and have a headphone jam i suppose.

shredd

\ne1roc\ wrote:

Shredd, I suggest finding a Rush lovin' hottie who can massage your forearm everytime it starts acting up!

Now THAT'S a solution I like the sound of! Know any???

shredd

\thehootman\ wrote:

You could also use headphones, they can sound much louder without doing as much damage to your ears. If you are in a band you can jam with a mixer, and have a headphone jam i suppose.

Actually I use headphones pretty regularly. I have really good ones - Sennheisers - and they do give you great, full sound without blazing volume...and yet it's still enough to keep my ears ringing. Better than bleeding, I guess....maybe I should get a new hobby, like Bonsai trees or stamp collecting??? :shock:

thehootman

HAve you heard how they can cure tinnitus?
I am serious, there is a cure. What they do is they make you listen to white noise while you are sleeping (withe headphones) and apparantly they can cure your ringing - check it out.
http://announce.curtin.edu.au/release2004/c7805.html

Tal Rules

I'm 52 and when I feel the twinges of arthritis coming on I call my friends in the Arthritis support group..

Jack (Daniels), Ezra (Brooks), and Evan (Williams)...

shredd

Hehee...better living through chemicals, right?
My problem isn't arthritis, it's just inflammation of those muscles along the top and back of the left forearm. Sometimes it's nothing, sometimes it's annoying, then nights like last night, I couldn't even play and watched some stupid movie on Cinemax instead. But at least I got to see some tits, which is better than I do when I play! :roll:

shando

\shredd\ wrote:

But at least I got to see some tits, which is better than I do when I play! :roll:

Hahahahahahaha.

N1

shando

insideout

\thehootman\ wrote:

HAve you heard how they can cure tinnitus?
I am serious, there is a cure. What they do is they make you listen to white noise while you are sleeping (withe headphones) and apparantly they can cure your ringing - check it out.
http://announce.curtin.edu.au/release2004/c7805.html

Man, I can hardly wait for that to be available in the US. My ears ring so much, I actually use a white noise maker just to sleep at night. Total silence is deafening :roll: Sounds weird, but true.

Hey Shredd, maybe you shouldn't be blaming the guitar for your pain. Let's see... single, searching for a hottie, pain in the forearm... hmmmmm... my advice, change hands once in a while :P Just kidding man - stop hitting me :shock:

shredd

\insideout\ wrote:

\thehootman\ wrote:

HAve you heard how they can cure tinnitus?
I am serious, there is a cure. What they do is they make you listen to white noise while you are sleeping (withe headphones) and apparantly they can cure your ringing - check it out.
http://announce.curtin.edu.au/release2004/c7805.html

Man, I can hardly wait for that to be available in the US. My ears ring so much, I actually use a white noise maker just to sleep at night. Total silence is deafening :roll: Sounds weird, but true.

Hey Shredd, maybe you shouldn't be blaming the guitar for your pain. Let's see... single, searching for a hottie, pain in the forearm... hmmmmm... my advice, change hands once in a while :P Just kidding man - stop hitting me :shock:

OK 'out, very funny...but a pretty good guess.:roll: But it's my NECK arm that hurts, and I think it's from playing, and also from work exertions.
Being single and wishing for a hottie is more of a heartache than an arm-ache...sadly I live in a small town where local women are very \"independant\" (read \"self-involved and not interested in contributing to a relationship\"), and women from 'the outside\" think WY is somewhere between the Artic Circle and the Gobi Desert. Sheesh.
I also hope for a tinnitus cure - I have that \"deafening silence\" problem too. Years of concerts, guitar playing, construction noise, yada...

Tal Rules

Wyoming is awesome...
Don't think there's a prettier drive in the country that the one between Denver and Laramie.... 8) .

Been out Cheyenne way as well. 8) ..

Still hoping for that trip to Jackson Hole.. ..

Had an opprutunity to relocate to Laramie a few years ago...
Wife's with me while driving around and asked...
\"What are those big fences for on the sides of the mountains?\"
Screwed up and told her the truth that they were snow fences to keep the snow on the mountain not on the road. :shock: ..

Well........
I'm still living on the gulf coast in Texas riding out another hurricane season....

shredd

\Tal Rules\ wrote:

Wyoming is awesome...
Don't think there's a prettier drive in the country that the one between Denver and Laramie.... 8) .

Been out Cheyenne way as well. 8) ..

Still hoping for that trip to Jackson Hole.. ..

Had an opprutunity to relocate to Laramie a few years ago...
Wife's with me while driving around and asked...
\"What are those big fences for on the sides of the mountains?\"
Screwed up and told her the truth that they were snow fences to keep the snow on the mountain not on the road. :shock: ..

Well........
I'm still living on the gulf coast in Texas riding out another hurricane season....

My condolences. Shoulda told her they were for keeping the unicorns in.
You think the drive from DEN to Laramie is nice? Go from Rock Springs through Pinedale up to Jackson, where I live. AWEsome. I live on a grand estate right on the Snake River and in the shadow of the Grand (Teton), so it's pretty spectacular.
So if your wife has a hot sister who's more gullible, have her drop me a line!!! 8)