Bypass vs. Direct

jmillerc22

Hi, I'm trying to create a preset that's the equivalent of the bypass function. I just created one where I selected Direct for cabs and amps, turned off all the EQs, turned everything off that I could fine. Shouldn't that sound the same as bypass. It's close but, not as warm for sure. A bit tinnier, like an acoustic setting. Am I doing this right, and this is just as close as it gets or what???

guitar3456

True bypass is not achieved via modeling since the modeler samples the guitar signal and digitizes it for use. I can only suggest for bypass, vary the gains to get close as you can. I keep the gains around 30%. It's lower, but allows for cleaner usage of efx only via guitar amp loop.

Modelers do this in almost all cases. A true bypass or modeling on off switch would have been perfect. But there is much involved to accommodate such a simple task. You can use an AB switch on the guitar input if you want. Then you can send a direct line to the guitar amp, and punch in GNX tone when you need it.

web surf

Do have a look at your speaker compensation settings.

I always forget whats the correct setting ---

Is is \"Speaker Compensation ON = Compensate something in the Speaker, alter some freq response, do something, do anything\"

or

\"Speaker Compensation ON = Do nothing, just output a flat response\"

thehootman

Eq is flat when speak. comp is on. When it is off, the high freqs are boosted.

web surf

Oh I get it now,

ON = do nothing
OFF = do something

Sounds very counter-intutive !!

guitar3456

Speaker compensation drops the HF dependent on the cabinet model used.

Ex: hook a guitar amp up to a PA speaker, you get that fizzzy sound like a bad tweeter. Guitar amp cabinets roll off the amp Eq by design. Amplifier heads and combos are voiced around a specified speaker. If you change the speaker in the amp, you change the sound character.

Speaker compensation is designed to simulate the guitar speaker selected. Whether it be a 4x12 or other. Any change of the cabinet tuning, the compensation will follow audibly.

GNX can get additional HF by changing the cab tuning up 1-2 semitones even with speaker compensation activated.

Matt

chuck

This is how I think of it:

Comp ON means DO compensate for the flat response (full range) of PA speaker by making it sound more like I am miking a guitar speaker into the PA.

Comp OFF means Don't compensate for the PA speaker by making it sound like I have plugged directly to the PA (and willl get a more \"tinny\", les warm (not good like a guitar speaker) sound.

So comp ON means I am compensating for the fact the the PA doesn't (all by itself) sound like a guitar speaker.

Please confirm deny (????)

rgds,
Chuck

chuck

jeez, now *I* am confused -

Is it....

Comp ON =
\"do something\" - cut high frequencies so your signal coming out of the GNX4 sounds more like a guitar speaker than a PA speaker. I would consider doing this if I am connecting my GNX4 directly to a PA.

Comp OFF =
\"do nothing\" - flat, unfiltered, so your signal coming out of the GNX4 sounds more like a PA speaker than a guitar speaker. I would consider doing this if I am connecting my GNX4 to a guitar amp. A flat, unfiltered signal comes out of my GNX4 and goes into, and is then \"colored\" by my guitar amp/speaker.


or is it the other way around? ... or something else ALTOGEHTER?


All I know for sure is that when I connect my GNX4 directly to a PA (I have retired my Peavy Heritage w/BW speakers), I make sure the Spkr Comp button is \"IN\" (on?), (and to my ears anyway), the GNX4 sounds the best this way - better than if I plugged my GNX4 (speaker comp IN or OUT) directly into the Peavy Heritage guitar amp.

More versatile and variable guitar sounds (IMHO),
and one less heavy piece of Equipment to carry.

rgds,
Chuck

iliace

Chuck,

This might be helpful:
http://www.gnx4.org/archive/keep-that-speaker-compensation-switch-on/

guitar3456

Not to confuse- your first response is correct.

Compensation freq will vary with each cab model.

A 1x12 will naturally be brighter than a 4x12. The GNX will adjust.

PA= speaker comp on

guitar Amp= can be on or off depending on the guitar amp/type . Higher impedance guitar inputs can give fizzier results in most cases. If so, turn SC on. In my experiences it varies from amp to amp.

Matt

groovy

\guitar3456\ wrote:

Not to confuse- your first response is correct.

Compensation freq will vary with each cab model.

There seem to be some graphs on the net re effect of Compensation. They seem to indicate that Compensation is a high end boost. It appears it is the same high end boost added to the underlying Cab model ie not specifically different compensations per Cab model.

Can you give further inputs on this.

\guitar3456\ wrote:

A 1x12 will naturally be brighter than a 4x12. The GNX will adjust.

Looking forward to more info on how the GNX adjusts the Compensation specifically for each chosen cab model. Right now it appears that the same high boost is added to each cab

\guitar3456\ wrote:

PA= speaker comp on

guitar Amp= can be on or off depending on the guitar amp/type . Higher impedance guitar inputs can give fizzier results in most cases. If so, turn SC on. In my experiences it varies from amp to amp.

Matt

Please relook the above.

In the scenario where a Guitar drives an Amp, the Amp's input impedance matters as the source is inductive. Different input impedances lead to different tone due to different loading of the Pickups.

In the scenario where a GNX drives an Amp, the Output impedance of most modern Audio devices and MFX are resistive and also very low. Hence changes in the input impedance of the Amp being driven by a MFX will not lead to tone changes.

The GNX or any other MFX is not trying to emulate the inductance of a Pickup at its outputs !!

chuck

Thanks for the replys... helpful for my understanding from a technical perspective. Now, for a general and simple clarification (if it can be explained generally and simply), if I am going to connect my GNX4 directly to a PA (in my case, I connect the two XLR outputs of the GNX4 directly to two XLR inputs on the main PA head as if I am connecting two microphones), am I correct in assuming that I should push the Spkr Comp button IN (on?) on the back of the GNX4 in order to affect a more (pleasing) real (guitar amp) sound. This is what my ears are telling me, but is this a good way to think of it?

rgds,
Chuck

partch

Hey Chuck that was How I used it at Church Right in the House PA Speaker Comp always on. I Even left it on when I went into the practice amps I owned. Tried both ways and found that it deffinetly was better with speaker comp on. My understanding & experience thus far has been ALWAYS leave speaker comp on period. I have heard depending on the guitar amp you use this could actually change?? For me it did not but with your amps maybee GNX will sound better with comp off??

God Bless!!!
Partch

chuck

HI Partch. We have as consensus then. I'm sticking with keeping that button IN then. I have never even bothered to connect my GNX4 to my Peavy Heritage (with nice huge-magnetted Black Widow speakers) - the amp is just too heavy to haul around by myself - all my roadies from bands past have long since gotten day jobs, had families, etc. (grin)

I confess that before the GNX4 came out, I took the amp guts out of the Peavy Heritage and used it as a cabinet (for the BW speakers) with a PA head and my GNX3. For live situations, this sounded better than using a PA speaker.

Peace and God Bless too,
Chuck

thehootman

When i use it with my quad, i take speaker comp. OFF.
\"Heresy!\" i hear you say...\"leave it on!\"... but for something as bass heavy as a guitar quad the additional prescence that the comp button OFF gives you is necessary. I just have to remember to turn it on again after i'm done

groovy

Hi G3456,

Looking forward to your further comments on the points you made in your earlier post :

A) The GNX has different Speaker Compensations for each different Speaker Model.

The GNX has such a high inductive or capacitative output impedance that its tone changes depending upon the Amp it is driving.

groovy

Looking forward to your comments and clarifications on the above !!