I must respecfully disagree.. When I was a young lad playing in a college jazz band the instructor passed out a chart \"Satin Doll\". Deceptively simple, old jazz standard, deceptively staid dry piece. We all groaned when the chart was passed out. We were into Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock and the like.. Guess What??? We couldn't play it. We stank..
That's when the instructor uttered the famous saying.
\"Just because you think it sucks, try to play it.. If you can't, It proabably doesn't suck..\" 8)
And yes, since then I have heard guitarist perform 'Satin Doll\" with the kind of tone and clarity that I will never acheive... Wes Montgomery's version comes to mind as well as Howard Roberts. 8)
I feel the same way about EVH and some of the Heavy metal shreddin I hear. Don't particulary like it. (In fact I perfer the Kinks version of You really got me.) but I do recognize the talent and dedication that goes into to perfecting those licks and I must come to the conclusion above that my old music instructor gave me many years ago..
I am not so quick as to blow off guys whose styles I don't particulary care for. I listen closely and always give the guitarist his due.. Whether it be old Charlie Christianson tearing it up with Duke Ellington, Vai's latest shred, or Slash's latest fret screamer.. Even with all the differing styles out there everyone of those cats technically have put in hours of pratice and who am I to put them down.. Much less some rag of a magazine that has the gall to call themselves \"GuitarOne\". GuitarZero may be more appropriate.. :twisted:
Even simple music can be deceptive. Ever hear B.B. King play. Not a lot of notes there. Just knows when to play them.. Also the great jazz player Jim Hall. Not a lot of notes but his tone and timing are impeccable.. 8)
\"I feel the same way about EVH and some of the Heavy metal shreddin I hear. Don't particulary like it. (In fact I perfer the Kinks version of You really got me.) but I do recognize the talent and dedication that goes into to perfecting those licks and I must come to the conclusion above that my old music instructor gave me many years ago.. \"
And also:
\"Even simple music can be deceptive. Ever hear B.B. King play. Not a lot of notes there. Just knows when to play them..\"
I can relate to this. I think I'm probably like most guitar players I know: rock based on blues in pentatonic, striving to become more melodic, and trying to develop faster and more articulate lead riffs.
I love Eddie's music, but frankly I got tired of hearing a whole lot of other guys use same chords and similar sound. I think they kind of blew it for him.
And with the coming of speed metal, it seemed like guitarists went in the direction of trying to blow the competition away by how fast they could sling notes.
I've heard guys who had great technical skill on the fretboard, yet their ability as song writers lags to the point that the music they make becomes tedious and boring after the first few minutes. I've heard a lot of people complain they are getting burned out on speed metal. It's become so fast, and there are so many doing it, that it isn't astounding any more.
Now, I am no Michael Angelo, but (like Tal) I do admire the work and dedication that goes into being able to play that fast and clean. I am striving to develop in that direction to improve my over all ability to play the guitar.
But I remember what Clapton said about it being, first and foremost, about FEELING.
And BB King said something like, \"Playing the blues is like having a conversation. Notes are like words. Be careful what you say.\"
I think it's the basic theme of that old song, \"Saved by Zero\". Sometimes, what you leave out is as important as what you put in.
A minigun-fast riff is impressive; and I am working daily to improve my own speed; but I mostly admire the players who can take a handfull of notes and really hit you where you live. It's all about timing, expression, and feeling. For me, anyway.
To me, music is meant to be heard and enjoyed. Playing a difficult piece is more of a test of what one's abilities are, and quite often, the results aren't very appealing for listeners. Respecting and praising a technically proficient musician for their abilities is one thing, appreciating their product is another.
I get what Tal and Jer are saying, but I believe that Jer is taking the standpoint of a listener and Tal is taking that of a player. Respecting and appreciating music doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand with enjoying it.
I do hear what Jer and AcWild are saying, and lest I be misunderstood I wanna say I agree.
I do believe \"fast\" has emotions that have a legitmate place in music. It's exhilerating. It's uplifting. It can speak of power and anger, both of which are established emotions for musical expression. And because it's technically challenging, I find it is where most of my own personal development comes from: practicing things that are beyond me.
Did you ever learn to surf, or ride a sailboard? You don't get good by playing it safe; you progress by hanging it out on the edge, falling down, and going on. It's like that with the guitar. To grow, I need to push beyond my limits to what I can't do. I will make mistakes along the way, but when it all comes together, it's a rush. And it's satisfying because I've learned, and I've grown.
I love it all; but I love music BEST that has a variety of emotions skillfully presented. I favor the performer or group who can really tear it up with fast and powerful music; and then turn right around and play something that is sadly beautiful, and hit all points inbetween, and do it well. To me, that's the hallmark of a master guitar player. But I'm not excluding any one part of the genre because I think it's all necessary.
And you may be right: it seems most of the people I know who say they are tired of speed metal don't play the guitar; they play the radio. If they knew what a rush it was to make any progress at all towards being able to play that kind of music, they'd probably feel differently about it.
This is why I dig this board. Where else are you going to get exposed to this kind of back and forth from \"real\" players that know what they're talking about without all the macho...
I pick up a little something from everyone. I'm pretty sure it comes in waves, but I value what we got goin on here.
I'd like to sound like I was having a good time up there, like Ed... and sometimes i do.
I love Eddie's music, but frankly I got tired of hearing a whole lot of other guys use same chords and similar sound. I think they kind of blew it for him.
I think you are mistaken here. I don't think there is any band or guitarist out there that sounds similar to Van Halen but I may be biased. Same chords, well theres only so many on the neck so I guess we're stuck with that fact.
So you are of the opinion that if it is difficult to play it must be \"good music\"?
A direct answer Jer's question seemed to be avoided here. All I can say is good music is what you personally think is good, not what someone tells you is good.
All I can say is good music is what you personally think is good, not what someone tells you is good.
Couldn't agree more. I welcome all recommendations from people concerning other artists. It doesn't mean that I have to like them, but I'm always willing to listen. You never know what you'll find.
\"I think you are mistaken here. I don't think there is any band or guitarist out there that sounds similar to Van Halen but I may be biased. Same chords, well theres only so many on the neck so I guess we're stuck with that fact.\"
Well, bro, for only one example: in the Los Angeles area during the 80's and 90's, you couldn't walk into a club without hearing somebody camping in on Van Halen's style. Same could be said about garage bands and pub players all over California. The general tone, chords, the crunchy muffed bass runs, the harmonic squeals, fretboard tapping, and other techniques that Eddy popularized: it was everywhere and it still is to some degree.
Regarding chords: many artists have their own preferred chords and scale patterns. Carlos sure does, and so does Eddy. It becomes part of what's called their \"signature sound\". When others use those chord stylings, they have a tendency to remind us of that artist.
As far as there only being \"so many chords on the neck so we're stuck with them\"... What's a chord, bro? A minimum of two notes; more often than not, three or more. But even in concert pitch tuning there are a LOT of chord possibilities, and more if one thinks outside the box.
Then look at all the ways there are to detune or retune the guitar to produce even more chord fingering structures. People are discovering new ways to produce unique sounding guitar chords all the time.
Sure, there are only so many Major, Minor, Sevenths, Ninths, and so on; but there's a LOT of ways to finger those chords, or otherwise vary the sound. And then again, we have to consider chord progressions, rythm patterns, pick technique, and more.
At one point in my life I thought I'd heard just about all that could be done with a guitar. Then I saw Jimi Hendrix.
Now, I believe we are only stuck with sounding like someone else when we resign ourselves to that limitation. So I can't really agree that we're \"stuck\" with anything as long as we continue to use our own imagination.
ne1roc also said:
\"A direct answer Jer's question seemed to be avoided here.\"
Well, the question wasn't asked of me directly; but I responded to the general subject because this is an open forum. But actually, bro, I thought I was pretty clear when I spoke of how BB King's music may not be as complex as others, but is still considered \"good\".
Here's Jer's question:
\"So you are of the opinion that if it is difficult to play it must be \"good music\"? \"
Direct answer: No. And the functional word is \"must\".
ne1roc also said:
\"All I can say is good music is what you personally think is good, not what someone tells you is good.\"
Well, it's all in the ear of the beholder, to be sure; but how anything seems depends on what we understand about it.
Let's say I think I'm good; and I walk into a recording company and talk to an experienced producer or artist who disagree with me; which of us is right?
If I take your standard literally, I'm right and the seasoned professional is wrong. Somehow, that doesn't sound reasonable (or realistic) to me.
I believe I must be the first one to enjoy my music; but I recognize that everyone has a hand in determining what \"good\" is, not just me.
And in the end, if I want anyone other than myself to enjoy my music, there must come a time when I must try to understand their likes and dislikes, and relate to other human beings on a musical level. Otherwise, I might just as well become a hermit in a cave, and play my heart out to the wolves.
So in that regard, the opinion of others regarding what is \"good\" does matter.
But moreover, what is \"good\" anyway? Someone said, \"When you start thinking you're good, you've stopped thinking.\"
Seeing the grain of truth in that observation, let us never feel we are good; for that is a limitation. Rather, let us all simply continue to strive to be better tomorrow than we were yesterday. And if someone else hears what we've done and decides it is \"good\", that will be wonderful.
And if not, there's always tomorrow.
(Looks like my last sentence got cut off. Here tis...)
Seeing the grain of truth in that observation, let us never feel we are good; for that is a limitation. Rather, let us all simply continue to strive to be better tomorrow than we were yesterday. And if someone else hears what we've done and decides it is \"good\", that will be wonderful.
And if not, there's always tomorrow.
Seeing the grain of truth in that observation, let us never feel we are good; for that is a limitation. Rather, let us all simply continue to strive to be better tomorrow than we were yesterday. And if someone else hears what we've done and decides it is \"good\", that will be wonderful.
And if not, there's always tomorrow.
Thats deep man! I guess you are talking more about musical skills. My comments apply more to the music itself. I totally agree with alot of stuff you said but not all.
How about this for example, When Jimmy Page was assembling the group, Keith Moon got word of his plans and predicted the group would go down \"like a lead balloon\". John Entwistle thought it would be \"more like a lead zeppelin.\" Page took the phrase and manager Peter Grant changed the spelling to \"led\" in order to avoid mispronunciation. This is a great example of a professional being wrong. I can guarantee you that everyday, someone is turned away by some so called professional and probably shouldn't have. It happens in music, sports, the office, you name it.
We've gone way off topic and I my intentions are not to stir the pot so I will just stop here.
At the end of the day... It gets dark and what we or anyone else thinks about styles/genres etc of music wether technically difficult/melodic etc doesn't really matter because if some don't enjoy it some others will even if it is only the actual artist who enjoys doing it then what else matters. To have others enjoy it is a blessing and a bonus. I used to dislike techno/dance type music, I still do but I don't think it \"sucks\" as it sells, therefore, it is obviously others \"cup of tea\" so to speak and if it makes someone happy then it can't be that bad can it? Just because we hear something we're not \"in to\" doesn't mean that it \"sucks\". Of course, you can disregard this point if you've heard \"The Birdy Song\" by The Tweets. That's all I'm saying.
Shando,
Now you did it! How can I find the Birdy Song? I have to hear it now.
You are 100% on all points. Everyone hears things in a different way. Somebodies trash is another persons treasure. Anybody remember Lou Reeds Metal Machine Music? I liked it...sue me.
I went to a jazz piano recital by Marilyn Crispell. The room was filled with jazz elitists from the area. Within the first 5 minutes, half the audience fled in disgust. Admittedly, it was difficult to listen to. Dissonant, atonal, and chaotic. My wife and I stayed because...well, you never know. At about 15 min. into the piece, I started to hear something like a common thread buried deep in the piece. The more I focused on this thread, the more I heard, until eventually, it all became clear. Brilliant, innovative, and she plays so hard, that the Steinway was moving around the stage and had to be moved back by stagehands.
My point being that sometimes you have to look for the good in something. Hell, just the phrase, \"The Birdy Song by The Tweets\" made me laugh, so there is a goodness inherent in the song. Albeit, probably not musically.
At the end of the day... It gets dark and what we or anyone else thinks about styles/genres etc of music wether technically difficult/melodic etc doesn't really matter because if some don't enjoy it some others will even if it is only the actual artist who enjoys doing it then what else matters. To have others enjoy it is a blessing and a bonus. I used to dislike techno/dance type music, I still do but I don't think it \"sucks\" as it sells, therefore, it is obviously others \"cup of tea\" so to speak and if it makes someone happy then it can't be that bad can it? Just because we hear something we're not \"in to\" doesn't mean that it \"sucks\". Of course, you can disregard this point if you've heard \"The Birdy Song\" by The Tweets. That's all I'm saying.
Oh yeah, the Birdy Song was one of those comedy/party/novelty songs that came out in the UK in the early '80s and also had it's own little dance, which I will not admit to ever doing. Against my better judgement just thinking of this tune enrages me, LOL. I try hard not to condemn, criticise or complain about others (unless in light hearted banter of course) but the bloody Birdy Song is surely the lamest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. In fact compared to the Birdy Song, the Macareena rocks! Yeah it really was that bad. Just ask any of the UK members of this community about it. The amazing thing is that the UK record buying public of the time went out and purchased it in their droves, must havve had some subliminal auto suggestion type stuff going on in the background, haha.
I guess you have found the exception to the rule.
8)
But I'm kind of wonderinging now what the Macarena might sound like with a real laid back jazz treatment.. Me and my sick mind... :twisted:
Speed does indeed have it's place and is not an invention of the shredders. Been around a long, long, time.. Always seems like some cat plays a tune, then the next cat says \"I can play it faster\" Then the race is on.. 8)
Ever hear of flight of the bumblee, the 2 minute waltz, Bach's tocata and Fugue in E minor, plus a host of others just from the classical period.
I'd give even money that in the days of ancient egypt, harp and lyre players would see who could outgun the other guy..
Old school jazz has some cats that really can smoke.. Check out Joe Pass and Herb Ellis doing \"7 come 11\". You'd swear nobody could play that fast and that clean. :shock:
Check out Django Rheinhardt, the two fingered gypsy player. You listen to the speed and think impossible, then you find that he only plays with two fingers on his left hand because of a child hood accicdent then you have to pick yourself off of the floor. :shock:
There's a score of guys out there that can burn and before I end this tirade don't forget my namesake Tal Farlow.. Known as the fastest player alive in his days.. The only guy I have ever heard that could approach him in speed is Al Dimeola and Tal was very melodic in his playing where as Al is mostly Aeolian (natural minor) all the way.. In my opinion Tal Farlow was just an awesome player. But I guess you know that by looking at my username.
On the melodic smooth side of jazz players none is smoother than Johnny Smith, then Wes Montgomery and Jim Hall... 8)
And other responders to this post have asked the question \"Does technical difficulty make a piece good?\" The short answer is NO. The other part of the equation is usually people don't practice a very technically challenging piece to sound like crap.. What's the point of that? :?
Some \"Free Form\" jazz drives me insane after a while. Coltrane did a whole LP with just him and drums Just playing whatever they wanted. Interesting for a while but after 20 minutes I have to get my head unwound from it.
On the other hand Coltranes \"Giant Steps\" is one of the most technically challenging AND melodic pieces ever written.. I have only heard one guitarist successfully play the piece acappella and that was the great \"Joe Pass\".
8)
As far as what goes on in pop music has very little to do with jazz. With the exception of the Big Band's jazz has always been on the outskirts of popular music.. Jazz has always been a players idiom. Very few non-players have an appreciation for the idiom. 8)
I guarantee you I can put on Coltrane's \"Giant Steps\" on a cd at a party and every non-player there will be hollering to turn it off and every player there will be saying leave it on..
That's just the way jazz is and I guess that's probably why I'm such a big fan of the idiom and am always on the look out for great PLAYERS of other musical idioms as well because jazz is just that.. A mish mash of all great music and styles combined into one.. 8)
As far as individual cuts. \"Stella by Starlight\", \"Cherokee\", \"Straight no Chaser\" are some of his best known stuff.. And about anything he did with the Red Norvo trio.. 8)
You can probably tell I'm a Talaholic. But that''s cool.. 8)
Comments
I must respecfully disagree.. When I was a young lad playing in a college jazz band the instructor passed out a chart \"Satin Doll\". Deceptively simple, old jazz standard, deceptively staid dry piece. We all groaned when the chart was passed out. We were into Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock and the like.. Guess What??? We couldn't play it. We stank..
That's when the instructor uttered the famous saying.
\"Just because you think it sucks, try to play it.. If you can't, It proabably doesn't suck..\" 8)
And yes, since then I have heard guitarist perform 'Satin Doll\" with the kind of tone and clarity that I will never acheive... Wes Montgomery's version comes to mind as well as Howard Roberts. 8)
I feel the same way about EVH and some of the Heavy metal shreddin I hear. Don't particulary like it. (In fact I perfer the Kinks version of You really got me.) but I do recognize the talent and dedication that goes into to perfecting those licks and I must come to the conclusion above that my old music instructor gave me many years ago..
I am not so quick as to blow off guys whose styles I don't particulary care for. I listen closely and always give the guitarist his due.. Whether it be old Charlie Christianson tearing it up with Duke Ellington, Vai's latest shred, or Slash's latest fret screamer.. Even with all the differing styles out there everyone of those cats technically have put in hours of pratice and who am I to put them down.. Much less some rag of a magazine that has the gall to call themselves \"GuitarOne\". GuitarZero may be more appropriate.. :twisted:
Even simple music can be deceptive. Ever hear B.B. King play. Not a lot of notes there. Just knows when to play them.. Also the great jazz player Jim Hall. Not a lot of notes but his tone and timing are impeccable.. 8)
My two cents,
Tal
I too respect your opinion. This is good conversation.
\"I feel the same way about EVH and some of the Heavy metal shreddin I hear. Don't particulary like it. (In fact I perfer the Kinks version of You really got me.) but I do recognize the talent and dedication that goes into to perfecting those licks and I must come to the conclusion above that my old music instructor gave me many years ago.. \"
And also:
\"Even simple music can be deceptive. Ever hear B.B. King play. Not a lot of notes there. Just knows when to play them..\"
I can relate to this. I think I'm probably like most guitar players I know: rock based on blues in pentatonic, striving to become more melodic, and trying to develop faster and more articulate lead riffs.
I love Eddie's music, but frankly I got tired of hearing a whole lot of other guys use same chords and similar sound. I think they kind of blew it for him.
And with the coming of speed metal, it seemed like guitarists went in the direction of trying to blow the competition away by how fast they could sling notes.
I've heard guys who had great technical skill on the fretboard, yet their ability as song writers lags to the point that the music they make becomes tedious and boring after the first few minutes. I've heard a lot of people complain they are getting burned out on speed metal. It's become so fast, and there are so many doing it, that it isn't astounding any more.
Now, I am no Michael Angelo, but (like Tal) I do admire the work and dedication that goes into being able to play that fast and clean. I am striving to develop in that direction to improve my over all ability to play the guitar.
But I remember what Clapton said about it being, first and foremost, about FEELING.
And BB King said something like, \"Playing the blues is like having a conversation. Notes are like words. Be careful what you say.\"
I think it's the basic theme of that old song, \"Saved by Zero\". Sometimes, what you leave out is as important as what you put in.
A minigun-fast riff is impressive; and I am working daily to improve my own speed; but I mostly admire the players who can take a handfull of notes and really hit you where you live. It's all about timing, expression, and feeling. For me, anyway.
Rained On
I'm no speed demon and While I enjoy some fast stuff I would choose more slow, melodic stuff as my \"cds to take on a desert island\".
Sometimes fast has a feeling. I think a lot of people forget that. They start to assume feeling means slow.
Not true.
Fast has its place.
I get what Tal and Jer are saying, but I believe that Jer is taking the standpoint of a listener and Tal is taking that of a player. Respecting and appreciating music doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand with enjoying it.
I do believe \"fast\" has emotions that have a legitmate place in music. It's exhilerating. It's uplifting. It can speak of power and anger, both of which are established emotions for musical expression. And because it's technically challenging, I find it is where most of my own personal development comes from: practicing things that are beyond me.
Did you ever learn to surf, or ride a sailboard? You don't get good by playing it safe; you progress by hanging it out on the edge, falling down, and going on. It's like that with the guitar. To grow, I need to push beyond my limits to what I can't do. I will make mistakes along the way, but when it all comes together, it's a rush. And it's satisfying because I've learned, and I've grown.
I love it all; but I love music BEST that has a variety of emotions skillfully presented. I favor the performer or group who can really tear it up with fast and powerful music; and then turn right around and play something that is sadly beautiful, and hit all points inbetween, and do it well. To me, that's the hallmark of a master guitar player. But I'm not excluding any one part of the genre because I think it's all necessary.
And you may be right: it seems most of the people I know who say they are tired of speed metal don't play the guitar; they play the radio. If they knew what a rush it was to make any progress at all towards being able to play that kind of music, they'd probably feel differently about it.
Rained On
I pick up a little something from everyone. I'm pretty sure it comes in waves, but I value what we got goin on here.
I'd like to sound like I was having a good time up there, like Ed... and sometimes i do.
Great thread!
I think you are mistaken here. I don't think there is any band or guitarist out there that sounds similar to Van Halen but I may be biased. Same chords, well theres only so many on the neck so I guess we're stuck with that fact.
A direct answer Jer's question seemed to be avoided here. All I can say is good music is what you personally think is good, not what someone tells you is good.
Couldn't agree more. I welcome all recommendations from people concerning other artists. It doesn't mean that I have to like them, but I'm always willing to listen. You never know what you'll find.
\"I think you are mistaken here. I don't think there is any band or guitarist out there that sounds similar to Van Halen but I may be biased. Same chords, well theres only so many on the neck so I guess we're stuck with that fact.\"
Well, bro, for only one example: in the Los Angeles area during the 80's and 90's, you couldn't walk into a club without hearing somebody camping in on Van Halen's style. Same could be said about garage bands and pub players all over California. The general tone, chords, the crunchy muffed bass runs, the harmonic squeals, fretboard tapping, and other techniques that Eddy popularized: it was everywhere and it still is to some degree.
Regarding chords: many artists have their own preferred chords and scale patterns. Carlos sure does, and so does Eddy. It becomes part of what's called their \"signature sound\". When others use those chord stylings, they have a tendency to remind us of that artist.
As far as there only being \"so many chords on the neck so we're stuck with them\"... What's a chord, bro? A minimum of two notes; more often than not, three or more. But even in concert pitch tuning there are a LOT of chord possibilities, and more if one thinks outside the box.
Then look at all the ways there are to detune or retune the guitar to produce even more chord fingering structures. People are discovering new ways to produce unique sounding guitar chords all the time.
Sure, there are only so many Major, Minor, Sevenths, Ninths, and so on; but there's a LOT of ways to finger those chords, or otherwise vary the sound. And then again, we have to consider chord progressions, rythm patterns, pick technique, and more.
At one point in my life I thought I'd heard just about all that could be done with a guitar. Then I saw Jimi Hendrix.
Now, I believe we are only stuck with sounding like someone else when we resign ourselves to that limitation. So I can't really agree that we're \"stuck\" with anything as long as we continue to use our own imagination.
ne1roc also said:
\"A direct answer Jer's question seemed to be avoided here.\"
Well, the question wasn't asked of me directly; but I responded to the general subject because this is an open forum. But actually, bro, I thought I was pretty clear when I spoke of how BB King's music may not be as complex as others, but is still considered \"good\".
Here's Jer's question:
\"So you are of the opinion that if it is difficult to play it must be \"good music\"? \"
Direct answer: No. And the functional word is \"must\".
ne1roc also said:
\"All I can say is good music is what you personally think is good, not what someone tells you is good.\"
Well, it's all in the ear of the beholder, to be sure; but how anything seems depends on what we understand about it.
Let's say I think I'm good; and I walk into a recording company and talk to an experienced producer or artist who disagree with me; which of us is right?
If I take your standard literally, I'm right and the seasoned professional is wrong. Somehow, that doesn't sound reasonable (or realistic) to me.
I believe I must be the first one to enjoy my music; but I recognize that everyone has a hand in determining what \"good\" is, not just me.
And in the end, if I want anyone other than myself to enjoy my music, there must come a time when I must try to understand their likes and dislikes, and relate to other human beings on a musical level. Otherwise, I might just as well become a hermit in a cave, and play my heart out to the wolves.
So in that regard, the opinion of others regarding what is \"good\" does matter.
But moreover, what is \"good\" anyway? Someone said, \"When you start thinking you're good, you've stopped thinking.\"
Seeing the grain of truth in that observation, let us never feel we are good; for that is a limitation. Rather, let us all simply continue to strive to be better tomorrow than we were yesterday. And if someone else hears what we've done and decides it is \"good\", that will be wonderful.
And if not, there's always tomorrow.
Rained On
Seeing the grain of truth in that observation, let us never feel we are good; for that is a limitation. Rather, let us all simply continue to strive to be better tomorrow than we were yesterday. And if someone else hears what we've done and decides it is \"good\", that will be wonderful.
And if not, there's always tomorrow.
Rained On
Thats deep man! I guess you are talking more about musical skills. My comments apply more to the music itself. I totally agree with alot of stuff you said but not all.
How about this for example, When Jimmy Page was assembling the group, Keith Moon got word of his plans and predicted the group would go down \"like a lead balloon\". John Entwistle thought it would be \"more like a lead zeppelin.\" Page took the phrase and manager Peter Grant changed the spelling to \"led\" in order to avoid mispronunciation. This is a great example of a professional being wrong. I can guarantee you that everyday, someone is turned away by some so called professional and probably shouldn't have. It happens in music, sports, the office, you name it.
We've gone way off topic and I my intentions are not to stir the pot so I will just stop here.
Peace.
TY
shando
Now you did it! How can I find the Birdy Song? I have to hear it now.
You are 100% on all points. Everyone hears things in a different way. Somebodies trash is another persons treasure. Anybody remember Lou Reeds Metal Machine Music? I liked it...sue me.
I went to a jazz piano recital by Marilyn Crispell. The room was filled with jazz elitists from the area. Within the first 5 minutes, half the audience fled in disgust. Admittedly, it was difficult to listen to. Dissonant, atonal, and chaotic. My wife and I stayed because...well, you never know. At about 15 min. into the piece, I started to hear something like a common thread buried deep in the piece. The more I focused on this thread, the more I heard, until eventually, it all became clear. Brilliant, innovative, and she plays so hard, that the Steinway was moving around the stage and had to be moved back by stagehands.
My point being that sometimes you have to look for the good in something. Hell, just the phrase, \"The Birdy Song by The Tweets\" made me laugh, so there is a goodness inherent in the song. Albeit, probably not musically.
Very well said Shando!
This is not totally true. I tried playing the Macarena, I can't, but it still sucks. :shock:
A classic no less.
Oh yeah, the Birdy Song was one of those comedy/party/novelty songs that came out in the UK in the early '80s and also had it's own little dance, which I will not admit to ever doing. Against my better judgement just thinking of this tune enrages me, LOL. I try hard not to condemn, criticise or complain about others (unless in light hearted banter of course) but the bloody Birdy Song is surely the lamest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. In fact compared to the Birdy Song, the Macareena rocks! Yeah it really was that bad. Just ask any of the UK members of this community about it. The amazing thing is that the UK record buying public of the time went out and purchased it in their droves, must havve had some subliminal auto suggestion type stuff going on in the background, haha.
TY
shando
I guess you have found the exception to the rule.
8)
But I'm kind of wonderinging now what the Macarena might sound like with a real laid back jazz treatment.. Me and my sick mind... :twisted:
See Ya,
Tal
I bet you could pull that one off.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1947917209390029777&q=van+halen
Ever hear of flight of the bumblee, the 2 minute waltz, Bach's tocata and Fugue in E minor, plus a host of others just from the classical period.
I'd give even money that in the days of ancient egypt, harp and lyre players would see who could outgun the other guy..
Old school jazz has some cats that really can smoke.. Check out Joe Pass and Herb Ellis doing \"7 come 11\". You'd swear nobody could play that fast and that clean. :shock:
Check out Django Rheinhardt, the two fingered gypsy player. You listen to the speed and think impossible, then you find that he only plays with two fingers on his left hand because of a child hood accicdent then you have to pick yourself off of the floor. :shock:
There's a score of guys out there that can burn and before I end this tirade don't forget my namesake Tal Farlow.. Known as the fastest player alive in his days.. The only guy I have ever heard that could approach him in speed is Al Dimeola and Tal was very melodic in his playing where as Al is mostly Aeolian (natural minor) all the way.. In my opinion Tal Farlow was just an awesome player. But I guess you know that by looking at my username.
On the melodic smooth side of jazz players none is smoother than Johnny Smith, then Wes Montgomery and Jim Hall... 8)
And other responders to this post have asked the question \"Does technical difficulty make a piece good?\" The short answer is NO. The other part of the equation is usually people don't practice a very technically challenging piece to sound like crap.. What's the point of that? :?
Some \"Free Form\" jazz drives me insane after a while. Coltrane did a whole LP with just him and drums Just playing whatever they wanted. Interesting for a while but after 20 minutes I have to get my head unwound from it.
On the other hand Coltranes \"Giant Steps\" is one of the most technically challenging AND melodic pieces ever written.. I have only heard one guitarist successfully play the piece acappella and that was the great \"Joe Pass\".
8)
As far as what goes on in pop music has very little to do with jazz. With the exception of the Big Band's jazz has always been on the outskirts of popular music.. Jazz has always been a players idiom. Very few non-players have an appreciation for the idiom. 8)
I guarantee you I can put on Coltrane's \"Giant Steps\" on a cd at a party and every non-player there will be hollering to turn it off and every player there will be saying leave it on..
That's just the way jazz is and I guess that's probably why I'm such a big fan of the idiom and am always on the look out for great PLAYERS of other musical idioms as well because jazz is just that.. A mish mash of all great music and styles combined into one.. 8)
See Ya,
Tal
Here's a few links about Tal. 8)
http://www.classicjazzguitar.com/artists/artists_page.jsp?artist=13
Here's an interview with Tal and an offer of all his Verve recodings. 8)
http://www.gould68.freeserve.co.uk/tfarlowpge1.html
And finally another biography as well as complete discography. 8)
http://homepages.tesco.net/~guylj/TalFarlow/Index.htm
As far as individual cuts. \"Stella by Starlight\", \"Cherokee\", \"Straight no Chaser\" are some of his best known stuff.. And about anything he did with the Red Norvo trio.. 8)
You can probably tell I'm a Talaholic. But that''s cool.. 8)
See Ya,
Tal