Vetta II or Marshall Mode 4
I was thinking about getting rid of my main amp
currently have Marshall 9200 rack double stack quads with JFX1 and JMP1 and a Korg A2
Funny how things have moved on, I was thinking of either getting a Vetta II or a Marshall Mode 4
Anyone tried either live?
I would be interested to know their thoughts, Yes I understand the vast differences however I dont have much experience with the Vetta II, no one has one in stock and The one I did try was only turned to soft sound, hardly tell what it was like from that
Zak
currently have Marshall 9200 rack double stack quads with JFX1 and JMP1 and a Korg A2
Funny how things have moved on, I was thinking of either getting a Vetta II or a Marshall Mode 4
Anyone tried either live?
I would be interested to know their thoughts, Yes I understand the vast differences however I dont have much experience with the Vetta II, no one has one in stock and The one I did try was only turned to soft sound, hardly tell what it was like from that
Zak
Comments
There is so much you can do with the JMP1 and midi (Effects units)
Linking it all so the banks changes with the effects you want.
Get one!
Zak
IMO,
Thomas
I've also heard good things about the Peavey Valve King line - although I've heard the quality isn't overly consistent so it's a good idea to go to a local store to hear the actual amp you're going to purchase.
What I can say is that any of the Carvin gear I've serviced, or bought is well put together inside and out, and their cust svc, tech help is superior to most any other amp mfg around. Even Boogie, which won't do tech talk at all. Carvin amps can be rebiased as well to get many new tones. The cabs can be modded with better speakers, of course newer Carvin cabs use Celestions of various models instead of their own custom made ones like in the MTS series.
Been trying to dig up info on the V3 with no luck. Carvin doesn't even have it up on their site yet, but have a few teaser samples. The samples sound great... Anyway, I ordered the catalog - lol...
So you actually have the V3 right now??? What can you say about it??? I am in a rut as to what to go with. I am getting out of the whole modeling amp stuff (I only need a few tones anyway). At the sound demo page on Carvin.com they show the V3 with a 412 cab. Any clue what the cost of the cab is? Amp head is 900 right???
Thanx dude,
Thomas
It's not a Boogie type amp but can punch like a marshall. The scoop filters put you in mind of a Boogie or Uberschall, but it's not a $3000 boutique like the German and Boogie stuff. What I really liked were the clean tones to mid plexi vibe. $899...not much of an argument for having midi control of channel and efx loops ( smart loops ). That feature is cool cause it fades out sort of, the efx instead of just cutting them off like any other efx loop switching would do. Very innovative features. I'll have mine in about 10 days. I'll comment more when I get to really explore the head.
Another I did try was the Peavey valve king. Nice all tube signal path, very clean (112 combo)..drive was good as it gets and resembled a laney sound. $359 not bad!! The valve king head is 100w all tube and lists for $599 so probably around 475 at stores.
What I like about the V3 though is the options to change tube types ala EL34, 6L6, etc.
Cheers,
Thomas
Ditto.
Next..effects. take a G Major through a Mesa or Marshall efx loop and still..the Vetta's efx are thin in comparison to how the all tube powerhouses push the efx of a rack module like G Major, or even a Mp300. Most won't saturate the tone that wet to begin with unless the room is full of carpet.
Not to say that any of the choices are bad, but when you go head on against a Vetta with a Mesa, most would be very hard pressed to consider any competition...especially crank tested. Low to mid vols maybe..but you will never convince a Mesa user that vetta rectifier is as good as a MESA. Just like you will have the same hard time convincing a tone purist that a Marshall can be copied in modeling...just as accurately.
Bottom line... tube dynamics cannot be accurately sampled digitally. Digital noise levels are higher and not as dynamic. Harmonic overtones cannot be sampled of yet. Add to that compression characteristics of the amps, cabinets,class biasing and coupling transformers..just not quite there yet. notice I say YET! As many times I have argued the digital point since the Johnson Millennium days..I'll never convince tone and tube purists to jump ship. They'll validate their point every time with a Strat- JCM900, or Les paul and a Mesa...even with no effects applied. I will give proper credit for the attempts moreso than my purists would!!
Surprisingly close..but no cigar! Many steps are taken all the time to make things better in Digital land. Plus, you can't routinely crank up a Mesa to record as you can a convincing direct modeler. To add to that, most engineers would laugh a player out of the studio that came in with a modeler...they'd point to a shelf and say..use one of these ( various real heads ). Been there..done that! In studio with POD XT pro with all the bells and whistles...through a Mesa 90/90 1960A cabs. laughed right out from the start !! later, to be shown on tracks...why. I have always said..if one wants a particular tone..save up and get the real deal. If you want versatility and are not as particular..modeling is a great idea. Hundreds of users have emailed me about this stuff and I say the same thing..apples and oranges. Big coin...little coin..You Decide! For practical home recording does modeling work..yes of course. Does it track like a real Mesa rig with 57's mic'd up? NO WAY! But again..can you home record at 50 watts without peeling the paint off the walls with a Mesa? Hardly. Can you get a nice recording for a demo with a modeler..absolutely. Would the same recording be equivalent to a real live amp in studio? Nope!! Can a modeler sustain as does a real Mesa/Marshall? Nope!
Opinions are opinions but ask most experts and you will never convince them YET, or the digital argument..whether live, or recording in studio. Digital has it's place, but cannot match the analog characteristic of any real amp....YET! I know many dealers that sold the Vetta's and lost commissions on returns when purchasers went for the real deal for whatever reason. Being a studio person myself, and owner of the various amps..vintage and newer models..modeling amps are still models and I agree with my coherts..my Dual Rec will kick the snot out of anything digital..as will my JCM800, JCM900. Whether its the versatility or costs..its completely apples and oranges.. nobody can say..yeah..I get that sound digitally. Lastly, like other items with all the bells and whistles.. require many power supplies which fail much sooner than most Beefed up Mesa's or Marshalls ever would. There is much more to go wrong with Digital. I've seen cpu's, low voltage supplies, A/D convertors in Peavey transtube, JM's, Line 6 Spiders, Flextones etc, and others wiped out. Less likely to ever happen with the real Mc Coy! Keep a few tubes handy and your good as gold. Recently, we had a guy with a Vetta II onstage..soundchecked, all was good. Band started playing...bass notes flipped the amp on/off..Next thing you know, all he had was a backlit LED..nothing else.. Luckily, I kept a Crate powerblock handy and it got him through the night. Having the Vetta for 2 mos, first time out of the house..he wasn't very happy. This could happen to anyone with other amps..but he wouldn't listen to the dealer that had to credit his purchase towards a Peavey 6505 and a Crate powerblock along with a 1000 dollar refund. Maybe it was bad luck... if anything...a strong point to carry a backup!! All I can really say is use your ears and wallet as your judge. Keep in mind transporting etc. the more stuff, the more can go wrong. You don't have to reset a Mesa. If you want a sound...get what you need to achieve that. If a Vetta is what you are after..keep in mind the \"bells whistles\" thing...and go for it. Keep your receipts and test it live as soon as possible. Then, ask your friends, patrons and musician coherts and see what they can add. If it doesn't work for you, by all means get the real deal!
As for the JMP1 and Death metal...NOPE
g3456
Next...is a Vetta a Mode 4...Hardly! Mode 4 will blast the Vetta to kingdom come!! I know many with the M4 and it's a powerhouse. Not as Clean as a JCM but it's not designed to compete with a JCM.. It's a Dark DEEP thrusted 350 watt animal that will blow your eardrums out if not properly protected ! If you want Sys of Down tone..there ya Go! Guts that will turn your guts inside out!!
As for the JMP1 and Death metal...NOPE
In three years of gigging with my Vetta I have yet to experience a problem and neither has my buddy who gigs all the time as well. We can't say the same for our tube rigs. I have always been a tube head guy where my buddy has had the tube rack from hell! LOL.....I just can't go back. I get all the volume, tone and punch anyone could need for a club in most major cities. Heck, we played a gig at Giant's Stadium for a local fair and were told to turn down!!! Running through a decent PA, you need little power at the amp. I have also realized 412 cabs are overkill and always cringe when I see thes guys roll up with full stacks at a club! Most guys with combos or 212 cabs end up sounding better.
Another versatile set up I enjoy is a digital modeller through a tube power amp such as the Peavey 50/50 which is a nice fairly transparent tube power amp.
I don't know where guys are gigging where they crank a tube head like a Rectifier wihtout a PA. Every place we play now I use the vetta at low to moderate volumes...usually about 9:00-10:00 on the master mostly as a stage monitor and the PA does the rest. In that environment my tube heads had no place. It seemed the bigger the place, the more they told us to turn down and let the PA do the work. I can't even find a place for something like a JCM 800 or Mesa head these days...not to mention the hassles I went through configuring my pedals, loops, racks, you name it.
There is a local Philly band called Noosphere that plays the Pirate's Den a lot in Jersey. The lead guitarist played a Diezel VH4 for a while as he had an endorsement with them and also Line 6. When he gigged with his HD147, the sound guy told him it sounded better than the Diezel. In that environement, small to medium club I have to agree. The problem with the big tube heads is that it doesn't get any easier at the big clubs where you rely on the PA.
I have to disagree about the studio situations you mention. I have heard digital tracks that were almost identical to those recorded with a variety of top tube amps both of which were recorded in a very good studio setting with good technicians. Anyway, just an opinion I guess.
Peace.
. We all know about opinions. Most guys I see with a Rec we mic and they barely have the vol on 2 most gigs. I've seen the Vettas though in outdoor gigs with other guitarists in the same group that had a JCM 900 and from 100 ft from stage the board was maxed as was the Vetta. The Marshall cut right through the outdoor gig. I'm not against vetta by any means. I'm just adding that aspiring musicians ready to buy gear at that price, need to look at many things. Durability, Versatility..covers? yes, original group? , most likely one amp. From the many that asked this advice about such ventures, go to a pro studio with a Vetta, Flextone, etc...watch the engineer's faces. They know what they are up against. 9 times out of 10, they will steer them another direction and lease the gear to the group. That's fact. Can more go wrong with all the bells whistles?? Things like the midi pedal, midi cables. Oh yeah...I service them in and OOW. I don't personally see as many Vettas as I do Spiders and Flextones mainly due to the higher cost of the Vetta, how many are sold, and mere fact that most vendors order them per request. The point here is not to say..VETTA is a bad choice cause that's not how I feel about it. This is to openly give a user more info to make the best choice..as you have done by researching yours. I've stated fairly...pros and cons as you surely can add to it..whether recording or live.. the differences and the options available. I'm sure most would agree to that. This is no different when I was asked about a DSL100 over a used JCM 800 a while back. Same price..but the DSL is way thinner sounding than a point to point wired JCM. Besides the fact that it used solid state and tube signal paths and the JCM was pure tube.
Besides helping in the research the real Question of this topic cannot be answered since the two amps are apples and oranges. Vetta will never sound like a Marshall and a Marshall will never sound like a Vetta. About the same in price, but it's bells and whistles vs Marshall integrity and a simplified tone application. If they have a GNX modeler and want to use it with another modeler amp..well, that's rediculous. In that case, the M4 is the only option since it's the purest of the signal paths. Many dealers now have reissue ptp wired Marshall's that can be ordered for about the same price. No pc boards.. all posts, terminal strips and ptp wiring of components to completely lower the noise level of the pc board made counterparts. Again..for purists.
Peace!!! ('8)')
However, as an alternate rig, I am puting together a digital preamp/tube power amp rig so we'll see how that goes.
The one tube amp I thought I might really like is the Triamp by H&K because it seems very versatile with a variety of tones. But, it scares me the thought of getting back into effects routing, etc.
I wish I knew if there was a decent tube preamp that was programmable with built in effects so all I'd need is a tube power amp and that might satisfy the tube hound in me. LOL.
Peace 8)
We are currrently designing an analog filter that you can take any Multieffects unit and use it with your efx loop. More or less, filtering the digitized signal for efx loop purposes. Also having a dual in/out selection to enable tuner modes throughout if preferred.
Thanks!
so in a live situation or any other this amp is just not worth the $ or agravation The MF 4 Cab is another story amazing hart stoping bottem end this thing can handle 400Wats and Im using Mesa Trip though it now. Usind the GNX3 with just head phones on ocasion Ill hitch the gnx to the amp with mic and get some serious evil sounds with vocals.
COMBODRIVE.