I think I was misunderstood...I said I disagree on the \"reverse engineering\" aspect. Behringer units are not even the same on the inside. I work on Mackie and own a bunch of Behringer stuff in several live racks for pro sound. What is emualted by Behringer are COSMETICS. 2031A's resemble Mackie 824's. That is what is smart about them. They make their products LOOK like their competitor. Inside..it's another story. Home recording forums and other places will likely dog Behr on their early reputation. In recent years the quality is way better..and still..cheap to buy
After seeing dozens of mixers, from Allen Heath, Soundtech, Behr, Yam, and others, I can say that in the last few years Behr has come a long way on quality. All MFG's use a wave soldering technique and the only problem I have seen with Behringer stuff are XLR and 1/4\" jacks solder points weakened. I started taking them apart right after purchasing them, resoldering the terminals and have NEVER had a problem after hundreds of uses..at my shows, and shows I provide sound. The Europro's are also very nice LIVE speakers and floor monitors.
The 2092A Subs ROCK !!! They are specifically designed for the 2031A's. They whole rig with 2031a's, 2092A sub absolutely is the BEST low budget rig you could buy. It is unbelievably LOUD. Best thing is, HIGH POWER Monitor system like this yields a lot of dynamic headroom for mixing and resolution with this setup is phenomenal for the price. VERY VERY Flat response. I tried one out last week and ordered mine on Thurs. It should be in on the 12th. I'l post more after digging in for a few hours on my personal setup. What I heard at the music store was fantastic. Nice ..
Some of my Behr stuff I own and use.. CT100, B2031A's, Ultramizer Pro for 99 bucks..unreal!!, Virtualizer pro (6) , DDX3216 (2), REV2496 (2), DSP1124 (2), T1952 (2), MDX2600 (2), DCX2496 (4), DEQ2496 (4), SL2442FXPro, DEQ1024 (4), EP2500's (6) , B1520's (6), B1800X (6), B1520's (6)...Most are used in Pro Live rigs ( they get abused in transit) when we run sound for smaller club shows ( small meaning medium sized clubs). Some of them are in my studio. So if anyone has any questions about Behringer gear..just ask..I have a lot of it!! And it Works!
Ohh..and for Digitech... I use a lot of DOD, JBL, and Lexicon too!!
What I like most about the 2442 is the abillity to run multiple monitor mixes..drummer wants this, guitar wants that..etc etc .
The Virtualizer is a bit different than the Ultramizer. Both are good, but look at the specs to get what you need. If I'm not mistaken, the 2442FX unit has on board Virtualizer based efx. If you wanted a different pallete I suggest the Ultramizer Pro if you needed more of a compression/limiter or dynamic filter.
I was after the Ultramizer because i read it could double the PA volume (or close enough) without using extra power amps, and I would only be starting out with 2x 300w Wharefedale active's for our underground dungeon gigs. The double aux send looked pretty sweet too for on stage mixes as you said. As did the 4 subgroup outputs, they would come in very handy for recording drums with a M-Audio Delta 44, running toms on left sub, cymbals on right sub, kik on aux send 1 or \"insert i/o\" and snare on aux send 2 or \"insert i/o\" and because the Delta does 4 tracks at once, you can edit each drum individually, rather than a universal change if you just used one track. And for live gigs you could always run Drums to Left sub, Vocals to right sub, Guitars to aux send 1, and bass to \"insert i/o\" and you have an instant band ready to record and be able to edit individually afterwards. I think i have it sussed \\m/
Emulate certain key circuits.
Emulate IP without patent violations.
Emulate functionality.
Emulate Sound.
There is lots to reverse engineering. I work with R&D as a senior engineer. I know our customers try to \"copy\" our products as we are the leading manufacturarer and innovator in the market. The customers get close to the what they want to emulate, but never quite there. Hence, the original is better than the following brands. Yet, we still keep out manufacturing costs lower than competition despite our R&D costs!!! Funny why Mackie or other name brands cannot do the same... Cuz, Mackie was not ALWAYS pricey - not back in the days.
PS. Rev Eng does not mean they look alike on the inside. They can look quite different. But often times if you draw the circuit diagram and then compare to the \"original\" you will see that they are a heck of a lot more alike than your eyes fooled you to think.
But you do have a point. Behringer is upping their quality a notch. I even think they may start developing equipment of their own!!! Which sorta sux for the el cheapo musician like myself, cuz I like it the way it is now where I can get my stuff for cheap dinero and good quality
When I ready your post, we both agree on the bottom line issue, Behr is great for the budget musician!!!
I have the Power Play 4 channel head phone amp. Very nice unit for $100.
I don't recommend the 8 channel, the reviews said channel 7&8 are very noise. Wiring is to close to the transformer on that side of the piece.
Mackie uses a lot of toshiba and nec components. Behr uses a lot of motorola based comps. What really surprises me is Behr use of precision comps like 1% toler caps/res. Unlike previous years where they used a lot of junk. Motorola is standard for Allen Heath, pro Carvin boards, Soundtech and others. Behr build quality is still an issue for many buyers, but way better than before. Behr started out, maybe, by reverse engineering..today they've become innovators. last Winter's Namm was an impressive mark.
My band uses enough Behringer equipment that we probably should be looking for some sort of loyalty reward!
We have:
Behringer PMH880S Powered Mixer - we use it primarily as our rehearsal rig, but we have used it for small clubs. 400w x 2
Behringer UB1202 mixer - what I use in my live rig. solid little mixer awesome price
Behringer XM8500 mics. Use these for vocals, although I am sure you could get away mic'ing a cabinet as well.... best $35 microphone out there...
my bass player uses a Behringer 4 x 10 bass cabinet as well. This is the only thing that has been a bit suspect as one of the drivers stopped working mid show once. I think it was more due to transporting as opposed to a product defect... he had it in the back of his pick up truck on a bumpy road...
I have used the X V-Amp once for a fill in gig. Didnt have time to tweak it and was unimpressed in the live settting with it.
So why do I buy Behringer? A few reasons. Primarily because it is cheap. Behringer mics are $35 a piece as opposed to a SM58 at $99.
Try the Superlux mics if you want something comparable to a Beta 57. The Superlux are great mic's and are under 65 bucks for a Pro-248 ( beta 57'). Supercardioid and noise free.
Comments
After seeing dozens of mixers, from Allen Heath, Soundtech, Behr, Yam, and others, I can say that in the last few years Behr has come a long way on quality. All MFG's use a wave soldering technique and the only problem I have seen with Behringer stuff are XLR and 1/4\" jacks solder points weakened. I started taking them apart right after purchasing them, resoldering the terminals and have NEVER had a problem after hundreds of uses..at my shows, and shows I provide sound. The Europro's are also very nice LIVE speakers and floor monitors.
The 2092A Subs ROCK !!! They are specifically designed for the 2031A's. They whole rig with 2031a's, 2092A sub absolutely is the BEST low budget rig you could buy. It is unbelievably LOUD. Best thing is, HIGH POWER Monitor system like this yields a lot of dynamic headroom for mixing and resolution with this setup is phenomenal for the price. VERY VERY Flat response. I tried one out last week and ordered mine on Thurs. It should be in on the 12th. I'l post more after digging in for a few hours on my personal setup. What I heard at the music store was fantastic. Nice ..
Some of my Behr stuff I own and use.. CT100, B2031A's, Ultramizer Pro for 99 bucks..unreal!!, Virtualizer pro (6) , DDX3216 (2), REV2496 (2), DSP1124 (2), T1952 (2), MDX2600 (2), DCX2496 (4), DEQ2496 (4), SL2442FXPro, DEQ1024 (4), EP2500's (6) , B1520's (6), B1800X (6), B1520's (6)...Most are used in Pro Live rigs ( they get abused in transit) when we run sound for smaller club shows ( small meaning medium sized clubs). Some of them are in my studio. So if anyone has any questions about Behringer gear..just ask..I have a lot of it!! And it Works!
Ohh..and for Digitech... I use a lot of DOD, JBL, and Lexicon too!!
G3456
The Virtualizer is a bit different than the Ultramizer. Both are good, but look at the specs to get what you need. If I'm not mistaken, the 2442FX unit has on board Virtualizer based efx. If you wanted a different pallete I suggest the Ultramizer Pro if you needed more of a compression/limiter or dynamic filter.
Emulate certain key circuits.
Emulate IP without patent violations.
Emulate functionality.
Emulate Sound.
There is lots to reverse engineering. I work with R&D as a senior engineer. I know our customers try to \"copy\" our products as we are the leading manufacturarer and innovator in the market. The customers get close to the what they want to emulate, but never quite there. Hence, the original is better than the following brands. Yet, we still keep out manufacturing costs lower than competition despite our R&D costs!!! Funny why Mackie or other name brands cannot do the same... Cuz, Mackie was not ALWAYS pricey - not back in the days.
PS. Rev Eng does not mean they look alike on the inside. They can look quite different. But often times if you draw the circuit diagram and then compare to the \"original\" you will see that they are a heck of a lot more alike than your eyes fooled you to think.
But you do have a point. Behringer is upping their quality a notch. I even think they may start developing equipment of their own!!! Which sorta sux for the el cheapo musician like myself, cuz I like it the way it is now where I can get my stuff for cheap dinero and good quality
When I ready your post, we both agree on the bottom line issue, Behr is great for the budget musician!!!
Peace,
T
I don't recommend the 8 channel, the reviews said channel 7&8 are very noise. Wiring is to close to the transformer on that side of the piece.
My band uses enough Behringer equipment that we probably should be looking for some sort of loyalty reward!
We have:
Behringer PMH880S Powered Mixer - we use it primarily as our rehearsal rig, but we have used it for small clubs. 400w x 2
Behringer UB1202 mixer - what I use in my live rig. solid little mixer awesome price
Behringer XM8500 mics. Use these for vocals, although I am sure you could get away mic'ing a cabinet as well.... best $35 microphone out there...
my bass player uses a Behringer 4 x 10 bass cabinet as well. This is the only thing that has been a bit suspect as one of the drivers stopped working mid show once. I think it was more due to transporting as opposed to a product defect... he had it in the back of his pick up truck on a bumpy road...
I have used the X V-Amp once for a fill in gig. Didnt have time to tweak it and was unimpressed in the live settting with it.
So why do I buy Behringer? A few reasons. Primarily because it is cheap. Behringer mics are $35 a piece as opposed to a SM58 at $99.
I'd recommend it to anyone.
OV