Wizard and gain structure setup confusion

Unknown

I'm need some direction trying to setup our drpa and system for dj shows. Tried following different walkthroughs, but I dont think its setup right. Here's what I've done so far.

First followed the manual and did the system setup wizard for speakers and amps. When the wizard asked for amp gain I set it at 50%. I did not setup the auto eq or afs wizard because as a dj setup we dont have mic feedback and I dont have a pink mic to setup the room. After the system setup I saved program and left everything else alone.

Second I followed the gain structure setup in the back of the manual and ran a pink noise cd through the mixer (just below mixer's red / clipping). I noticed that only bottom two pa input lights were on, at 0db max. Continued anyway and turned up the ams' gain, but could not get the amps clip lights to come on. I figured I wasnt getting enough signal into the pa, but didnt want to turn up the mixer as it was near clipping.

Then I came to this forum and followed the gain setup structure on the 'start here' thread which said to first turn off all the para eqs, limiters, etc. It also said to use the +4db pro switch in the back if input is low. Ok, did it, now get more pa input db, so adjusted mixer until bouncing in the yellow, no red clipping. Now the output levels putting more signal also. I figured thats good. Then I turned up my amps and could get them to clip. Turned them back down below clipping per gain thread. Figure I'm good to go.

Now I go to turn back on my wizard defined para eq, limiter... and notice that the threshold lights for the lows start blinking. And now my output levels dont look the same. I figure if the limiter is kicking in then something is too high.

So not sure what to do at this point. Im pretty sure I want to use the wizard eq, xover and limiter settings for my amps and speakers, right? Which gain structure should I have used? The manual or the one from this forum? Should I not have set the sytem setup wizard gain at 50%? Should I not worry about the limiter and let it work like it supposed to? Is there anything I missed? I dont want to blow anything, but I need all the sound I can get out of the system. We need it loud.

This driverack is pretty intimidating for me. Ive read up on how sound, amps and filters work - and most terminoligy, but have almost no experience. I do trust my ears though.

Thanks for help!

Setup
2 JBL MP415 tops driven by Crown xs700
1 JBL MP418S sub driven by Crown xs900 (can I bridge the amp for my one sub?)
DRPA highs outputs running tops and lows outputs running sub
DRPA setup per wizard.

Victor

Dra

In the gain set-up you missed where it said that after you tweek in the PEQ's (which technically where tweeked for you by the wizard) to re-do the gain set-up. So it reality you should have just left the PEQ's on and turned off the limiters for your first step, then gone back and set the limiters after.
Give that a try.

DRA

Gadget

Also you said nothing here about crossover point or gain on the xovers themselves. I would hope that the wizard and resets would do that but why not give them a look and tell us what they are set at...
HPF and LPF for the subs
and HPF for the Tops...

I would also like to know what the crossover point is if you change amps.. to say an amp thats 2500 watts...I don't have any of those settings in mine as it's pretty old now by comparison. Actually I just did it in the GUI and no.. it didn't change, 121.4 hz is the xover point I got but the High out PEQ's troubled me...Dra take a look at the CRAZY peq they put on the hi outs...The lo outs looked ok, but the Hi outs appear to be all below the xover point, so the only effect would be a cut shelf from 121 hz to about 500 hz the about a 12-14db cut to the 120 hz area?????? :shock:

Yes bridge the sub amp and set up 2X3 you are VERY under powered...

Gadget

Unknown

Dra wrote:

So it reality you should have just left the PEQ's on and turned off the limiters for your first step, then gone back and set the limiters after.
Give that a try.DRA

Ok, I set gain structure again with the PEQs on but limiters off. Had to turn the PA gain for the highs up to get clipping on the high amp. Then turned the limiters back on and now have threshold reds lighting up for the low output.

I played with the low OverEasy and noticed that if i change it from the wizards 4 down to 1, then it doesnt kick in. Is that ok?

Victor

Dra

Just to be clear... Are you setting the amps knobs to the recommended levels by the wizard, or are you turning the amp knobs up until clipping starts? The latter is what you should do. You should only have to raise the x-over gains if the amp is pegged (statement is for reference only as noise levels may require some give and take hear).

Gadget, yeah I saw that. It is strange. Maybe something psycho-acoustic going on. Or maybe an intern was given the assignment to test out that MPRO?

Vic, how does the system sound with the PEQ settings? Hollow in the mids?

DRA

Gadget

I know I wouldn't use them... (the Hi PEQ's)

gadget

Fanman20

Victell

Have you got the crossover point sorted yet???
What is it???

Mark

Unknown

Well, the event was last night. It seems following the wizard and setting the gain structure again. sounded better than ever, probably because nobody even attempted to set it up before.

I ended up adjusting crossover gain for more power, but then put them back to wizard settings and used the amp gains instead.

But yes, the mids were hollow, had no punch at all. I want to adjust stuff more, probably not use the peq if that was the problem... but just have to wait for the next event cus we cant bang this thing in our condo. Hawaii is too quiet sometimes.

Victell

ive been trying to post for over a week now, i guess the forum time-stamp got messed up. had to have my account deleted. anyone know why this thread says last post July 2nd??

anyway, I left the crossover setup as the wizard settings except for the sub hpf. If i remember correct, the wizard had the sub hpf at 45Hz. But the specs i read for the mp418s says it will respond down to 35. I changed it to that and got some more low end filled. i would have thought the wizard would have known that already. maybe not.

these are the rest of the xover settings, all wizard except for sub hpf

subs
lpf 125Hz, BW 24
hpf 35.5 Hz, BW 12, -3.0 gain

tops
hpf 125Hz, BW 24, 0.0 gain


I havent checked the mfg specs on the tops but im going to see if it has more range than the wizard settings are allowing right now. maybe i can get some more mid-bass.

and i dont know much about the peq, but i dont want it to cost me any sound. I tried playing around with it, but i had no idea what any of the stuff did and it was too much for me to ear-test at the time. Im thinking of not using the peq. suggestions?

thanks for your help guys.

Victor

Fanman20

Victell

What is your crossover point ???

Shape / freq

Mark

DRA1

PEQ info and tips in the READ ME FIRST section. Site is having problems. Hope this goes out.

DRA

Gadget

I haven't even been able to post at all for a week...The IS department was gone last week, and I guess they are back... so hopefully we will be back up and running...

As for your setup, what do you mean by \"midbass\"?

The PEq's are perfect for just such a task by the way. You select a center frequency (this is a bell curve) and then how wide the bell will be (Q) (a big number like...16 is an very narrow bell that affects a very small number of frequencies above and below the point selected... and a small number like .105 affects a number of octaves) and gain sets the amount you BOOST or CUT the bell... a hi-pass and lo-pass has a frequency rolloff in db/octave and is useful for setting up Hi-pass and lo-pass filters and (like cut anything below 100 hz perhaps... and for CD equalization, which is linked in the READ ME FIRST section to the Peavey site for a good explanation...

So if you felt your system was a little weak in the lo mids (say 160hz -250 hz) set a point midway between...say 180hz, set a bell curve starting at a q of about 2.0 and raise the gain till you are happy with the sound... then experiment with the Q and see if you can dial it in even further. work back and forth till you get the best results...that same is true of low end...and if your bi-amping the tops and have constant directivity horns ... that you can provide the necessary equalization to overcome the limitations of the design...
Gadget