When is \"Good\", good enough?
An interesting thing came out of band practice for me today. We were working on a new song for us that we have performed live once. Still working out a few twists and turns to make it even better. There is one part in the song where I have asked the drummer to smash his cymbals and step it up on the kit, but either he just doesn't understand what I'm asking for or is just playing it too safe on the kit in fear of losing his timing.
At any rate, when we hit that part in the song, he just continues his snare/hi-hat pattern and plays through it without banging those cymbals. I'm the only one in the band that notices the difference, but as a bass player, I think I'm often the first one to notice when the drummer is holding back on something. Especially, since at this part, I'm doing something on the bass that is different and it would really help me if he was crashing those cymbals. In other words, for my bass part to sound good, he has to go crazy too. He doesn't. So I feel like I'm stepping out there on my own and the part does not come off as good as I know it could be.
Anyway, I realized that I was talking to myself, and just let it slide for now. Maybe I'll bring it up again in another practice. Maybe not. But I ended up asking myself, when is \"Good\" just plain good enough? I know it could be better, but it just did not seem to be worth the extra bother to bring it up again as the drummer is not understanding the part and my bandmates don't have a problem with the drumming.
Why do I know the drum part is wrong? It's because I spent two weeks in the woodshed listening to and playing along with the original recording about 100 times or more. As a bass player, I concentrate on my part and usually the drummer's part. So, in this particular case, I know what's missing from the drummer.
And to be sure, I have had to \"dumb\" down some bass lines on songs that I just cannot play like the original, but the band wants to put on the set list. In my case, I feel it's better to play a solid simple bass line than to muck up a more advanced bass line that I can't hold down. So I know how to compromise on things when it's a matter of doing the best we can with our skill level. In this particular case with our drummer, I know he is capable to stepping it up and it would really help me on bass, and the song in general. But I don't think it's going to happen.
Oh well, just trying to keep the peace in the band while still pushing forward and making the songs ever better. In the end, it's only one song out of about 80 on our rotating list. Maybe \"Good\" will have to be good enough even though I know it could be better. I guess I'll just go back to the woodshed and work on those things I know I can improve in my own playing. Seems to work out better for me that way. Best wishes.
At any rate, when we hit that part in the song, he just continues his snare/hi-hat pattern and plays through it without banging those cymbals. I'm the only one in the band that notices the difference, but as a bass player, I think I'm often the first one to notice when the drummer is holding back on something. Especially, since at this part, I'm doing something on the bass that is different and it would really help me if he was crashing those cymbals. In other words, for my bass part to sound good, he has to go crazy too. He doesn't. So I feel like I'm stepping out there on my own and the part does not come off as good as I know it could be.
Anyway, I realized that I was talking to myself, and just let it slide for now. Maybe I'll bring it up again in another practice. Maybe not. But I ended up asking myself, when is \"Good\" just plain good enough? I know it could be better, but it just did not seem to be worth the extra bother to bring it up again as the drummer is not understanding the part and my bandmates don't have a problem with the drumming.
Why do I know the drum part is wrong? It's because I spent two weeks in the woodshed listening to and playing along with the original recording about 100 times or more. As a bass player, I concentrate on my part and usually the drummer's part. So, in this particular case, I know what's missing from the drummer.
And to be sure, I have had to \"dumb\" down some bass lines on songs that I just cannot play like the original, but the band wants to put on the set list. In my case, I feel it's better to play a solid simple bass line than to muck up a more advanced bass line that I can't hold down. So I know how to compromise on things when it's a matter of doing the best we can with our skill level. In this particular case with our drummer, I know he is capable to stepping it up and it would really help me on bass, and the song in general. But I don't think it's going to happen.
Oh well, just trying to keep the peace in the band while still pushing forward and making the songs ever better. In the end, it's only one song out of about 80 on our rotating list. Maybe \"Good\" will have to be good enough even though I know it could be better. I guess I'll just go back to the woodshed and work on those things I know I can improve in my own playing. Seems to work out better for me that way. Best wishes.
Comments
If I were me, and I were an independent (not-playing) element of the band, I'd be on your side. If there's a part of the song that belongs in there or will make it better, DO IT that way!
However...as an outside observer...I can also relate to your drummers' thing...and...I'd encourage you to relate it to exactly what you said: you'd rather ace a simpler bass line than mangle a more complex one. I suspect that's where he is with the above-mentioned cymbal fill.
Again, as an outsider - I'd recommend working the song into your practice and live sets...and as you all get it \"wired\", he'll be more comfortable adding the fills you expect. The thing to do it play him the song - now - and point out the fill, and let him know that you're aware it complicates the song for him, and that he can add it when he's got the song wired to the point he's comfortable with it.
However, I think it's worth mentioning that nothing is more important than the band pulling together as a group and convincing Shania that I'm the love of her life... :P
Never play at the edge of your technique
Maybe, as you say, he's afraid he'll lose time playing that paradiddle or whatever it is.. I'd take playing it safe anytime, than the whole tune falling apart because of lack of chops to do something consistently.
Maybe he's hearing something different. Unless you're doing a straight up copy, thing..(Some Cover Bands, classical music etc..) and you're improvising, band members should LISTEN to each other and play off each others ideas..
My 3 cents..
That's a great motto. I might steal it. In practice, I like to challenge myself, but on stage, I want to be solid. If that means a simpler bass line live, so be it. Lately I've been spending some quality time in the woodshed improving my technique. So I'm able to pull off some stuff live that just a few months ago I would have not been able to touch.
Paradoxically, at the same time I am improving my bass playing and technique, I am more and more finding out that a simple bass line is better than a more complicated bass line, at least for lots of songs we play. I have dialed back my bass lines on a few songs and have improved the songs that way. Even though I am capable of holding down a more complicated bass line, I am switching over to a less complicated line that works better to my ear.
Today at practice, I offered up a new simple bass line on a song that we have been playing for some time now. I compared the simple bass line to the more complicated way I currently play the song. The guys loved the new version, but also wanted me to keep the more complicated version. So I will be playing a hybrid of the two using my original more complicated bass line on the verse and chorus, but switching over to the simple bass pattern during the guitar solos. Probably the best of both worlds. Anyway, the guys appreciated the extra effort I put into rethinking my part in that song and how I could change my playing to improve the song.
Yeah, I felt I could only bring it up a time or two and since the drummer did not hit the part, I decided to let it drop for now. We did play the original song for him, but he still is taking it safe. Like you said, maybe he's just not comfortable with it yet. Also, I was thinking that I have put lots of time into playing that song with the original recording and maybe he has not had anywhere near as much exposure to it as I have had. In other words, he might know the basic beats/patterns after a listen or two, but he has not learned it well enough to add those fills and flavors that make the song better. And I don't want to lose a bandmate in a quest for the perfect cover, nor do I want to viewed as a PITA by my bandmates.
We have a good working relationship in the band right now and that is very important to me. We can make suggestions and work with each other in practice sessions to improve the songs, but we still manage to do it nicely and respectfully. We don't put anyone down. When we hit the stage, we are all smiles and having fun. Even if the song comes off less than our best, we still manage to work through it with smiles, write down a mental note of the problem, and take it back to our next practice for more work.
Hitting the woodshed for two weeks and learning our new songs was a great experience for me. I had the time to dedicate myself to practice and it really paid off for me. The downside of that experience, is that I also know when my bandmates are not up to speed on their parts because I have spent so much time learning the song and listenting to the original versions. I know when we are Good, but also know how it could be Better. I guess, for now, it will be have to be good enough.
I play this tune \"Night in Tunisia\", but you don't hear me Parker's break..I work on it at the house, but not enough confidece to pull it off in public..
You can see my latest lame version in the members video section..
Most cover band members are equally guilty of not following a specific part, so I cut members slack as long as the part is not really a stand out part it is not worth the argument. If that was my band, I'd address that part by playing the cd of the original and express how \"stand out\" it is.. I don't know what song you are describing or what segment you feel is not rounded enough.
Good Enough is common to a lot of cover bands. Original bands and bands like wedding and corporate gigs are more the perfectionists if I had to compare but that may even vary.
The point of cover bands are diversity and songs people know can entertain and they will hang around. They stay the bar makes coin.
Personally I'd find a compromise or just fix that part if it really did bother me as much. You just need to be tactful so no ego's are bruised.
That's true. We are not a \"Tribute\" band playing a cover song note for note of one particular artist. But we are working on getting as close as possible with what skills we do have in the band. There is a reason why those originals became so big, and the closer you can get to that sound/feel, the better the songs seem to be accepted. It's those small fills, backup vocals, signature lead licks, etc... that really push the song over the top.
I once read in a guitar magazine that cover bands should aim for about 90% true to a song, or completely change it up and redo it in a different genre altogether. Somewhere in between just seems to leave most fans luke warm and the band sounds like they did not put much effort into learning the song.
Well, my compromise in this situation is that I will have to play my bass part differently to work with the drummer. It's not a big deal, really, in the sense it's just one song out of about 80 we currently have rotating on our list. Like you said, ...\"so no ego's are brusied\"..., is basically where I have come down on this issue. I feel better now that a number of you guys have confirmed that this is just not a cop out attitude. I can play my part true to the original, but I'll have to change it now to flow better with the drummer and make the song stronger in that part. If the drummer ever gets to the point where he wants to step up to the part and go for it like on the original, I'll be ready to support him.
Of course, the reason I never mentioned the song or passage in the song is because that was not important for my topic question. I did not want people focusing on the specific song and offering advice based on that song. You guys have come through once again with some great advice and opinions that I can use on ALL our songs as we work through these issues of \"When is Good, good enough.\" Thanks.
Maybe if I drank more, I wouldn't care, but as it is, I do notice...