How Big Is Your Bass Amp?
Almost had a chance to get a 8X10 Ampeg cab with a 350 watt SVT head this past week. Just a day late getting ahold of the guy selling his rig. Had dreams of me standing on stage with an Ampeg 8X10 on my backside..... Oh well.
Dreams aside, we just played a gig this past weekend where my 120 watt 15 inch bass amp was more than loud enough. I had to turn my amp down all the way to about 2 on the volume scale. I was completely cut out of the FOH speakers at that gig. The small band stage was back in a corner of the room and all our sound was pushed out into the room. Very little power went a long way. Probably could have used my even smaller 50 watt practice amp.
Most of the venues we play at there is never a need for a very big bass amp. I was thinking of buying a 4X10 cab and head, but now I am thinking that my 15\" combo amp is more than enough. A friend of mine has 4X10 Hartke cab with a 450 Kustom head. He played a small venue a couple of weeks ago and had to turn his amp down so low that it ended up sounding like crap. So now he is looking at getting a smaller 15\" combo.
Just wondering what other bass players are really using for small to medium sized venues these days. It seems that most of the bass players around here are going for the smaller 15\" combos for most places and taking a direct line out to the mixer/FOH if more volume is needed. It seems that even the 4X10's are too much for most of our venues. And if you can't stand in front of an 8X10 blowing your hair, what's the point?
Dreams aside, we just played a gig this past weekend where my 120 watt 15 inch bass amp was more than loud enough. I had to turn my amp down all the way to about 2 on the volume scale. I was completely cut out of the FOH speakers at that gig. The small band stage was back in a corner of the room and all our sound was pushed out into the room. Very little power went a long way. Probably could have used my even smaller 50 watt practice amp.
Most of the venues we play at there is never a need for a very big bass amp. I was thinking of buying a 4X10 cab and head, but now I am thinking that my 15\" combo amp is more than enough. A friend of mine has 4X10 Hartke cab with a 450 Kustom head. He played a small venue a couple of weeks ago and had to turn his amp down so low that it ended up sounding like crap. So now he is looking at getting a smaller 15\" combo.
Just wondering what other bass players are really using for small to medium sized venues these days. It seems that most of the bass players around here are going for the smaller 15\" combos for most places and taking a direct line out to the mixer/FOH if more volume is needed. It seems that even the 4X10's are too much for most of our venues. And if you can't stand in front of an 8X10 blowing your hair, what's the point?
Comments
A huge rig like the Ampeg setup is totally unnecessary for your type of gig. It'd be different if you were playing a lot of outdoor shows or something, but basically you need stage monitoring/reinforcement, and the ability to run to the FOH system.
I myself had spent a lot of time and $ building up a gnarly-@$$ bass rig...2-ch, 450-a-side amp, bi-amped pre, one 2x10\" and one 1x15\" cab. This thing would blow over buildings. NEVER PLAYED IT OUT EVEN ONCE. :roll: Ended up parting it out..still have the amp and pre/compressor setups, but the cabs are gone. Part of the fallout of being homeless... :?
I know a guy who has an Ampeg 8X10 and took it to a local gig here. It looked nice, but he had to turn it down so low that you could hardly hear it. It sure did not sound all that good. The best sound I heard recently was from a small 100 watt 15\" Ampeg BA115T. She had it turned up enough that the amp was in its sweet spot but still she had lots of headroom.
This last weekend I had to turn down my 15\" 120 watt bass amp down so low that I could barely hear myself. I'm just wondering if other guys are finding themselves in similiar situations where a smaller amp turned up to its sweet spot makes more sense than a big rig which is turned down so low that it sounds like crap. That's the way I'm thinking.
Well, I was disappointed that I missed out on the 8X10 Ampeg rig, but I know that I would probably never have had a chance to take to a real live gig. On the other hand, my 15\" 120 watt bass amp, with the GNX4, has been a real workhorse for me. I just get GAS occassionaly and start rethinking my gear. I still have dreams of standing in front of a nice 8X10 Ampeg stack....
But of course, life would be complete if I could stand in front of Shania saying \"that's enough for tonight, darling...save your strength...\" :twisted: :twisted:
The 120 watt bass amp is my stage amp/monitor. My main sound goes from my GNX4 to the PA. I'm driving FOH/subs out front at about 700 watts per side. Our goal is to be loud out front, but not on stage. We don't want go deaf playing on stage.
Having said that, the last gig we played was a small, but nice, 100 person venue and acoustically we had to turn everything down. My stage amp was on 2 (out of 10) and the soundguy killed me out of the FOH completely.
Unfortunately, the larger venues that had bands around here have gone out of business. First it was the ban on smoking indoors, then it was the downturn in the economy. Patronage is about half what is was 5-10 years ago. The larger venues had too much overhead and could not make it. The smaller pubs and bars are surviving and that is all that is left around here for live musicians.
As a musician, I'm just trying to get the best sound I can for the venues we play at. Like I said, I'd love to have an 8X10 Ampeg standing behind me and my hair blowing all over my face everytime I hit a low E. But given the remaining small venues we actually play, even the 4X10 stacks are too much. Many of us bass players also use some kind of DI to the PA system. I use my GNX4 XLR out, but others might take a direct out from their stage amp/head or SansAmp DI.
A friend of mine who plays bass in another band has a nice GK 4X10 rig. I asked her how loud she has the amp turned up during their shows because we play some of the same venues. She said she barely has her amp turned up at all but uses her direct out from the head to feed the PA system. She mainly brings the 4X10 rig for looks, and that her practice bass amp does not have a direct out. Otherwise she would be opting for a much smaller amp.
I am curious to find out what other bass players are using on their live rigs and if they go direct into the PA system. Since I got my GNX4, I don't even bothter to bring a stage amp when I play guitar, I just go direct to the PA and put a little of my guitar back into the monitor for myself. My vintage tubed Fender Twin Reverb has been retired to my home studio. The only reason I need a bass amp at all is that I really don't want to mix bass guitar back into our monitors.
But, like I started this thread, I almost got ahold of a nice Ampeg 8X10 SVT rig and that sure would have been sweet. The reason the previous bass player sold it was that he never got to use it at a gig and he needed the money to buy a smaller amp that he could actually use. Sad, but true.
So - naturally, when I think about having actually owned this kind of stuff and not having it anymore, it wakes me up in the middle of the night :evil:.
On the other hand, I don't have enough studio space, or am settled enough into a home, to have all this various gear. And nowadays, with the world economy swirling the bowl, I don't have the money either. Besides, 3 phone calls a day to Shania really adds up...
I need to hear myself so I still have a 1X15 behind me, but it's usually not too loud. My main sound is out front through the PA. I definitely don't feel my bass very much. But I'm told the sound out front is great. That's all I really care about. Every time I came to a point where I had money to upgrade my bass amp or the PA system, I chose to upgrade the PA. In a way, I feel I have cheated myself in terms of getting a nice bass amp, but the whole band sounds better with a better PA and my GNX4 sends out a nice bass sound to the board. So I know my money has been well spent. But it's not the same as having a 8X10 Ampeg stack with you up on stage...
On the other hand, I saw a band last year that had great amps on stage. You could tell every guitarist and bass player had spent lots of money on their amps and guitars. But their PA system sucked. So you ended up hearing good sounding amps but absolutely terrible vocals. On my limited budget, I thought my money was better spent on upgrading the PA system where everyone in the band sounds better.
More to the topic of the size of our rigs, I just came across this sales pitch from Same Day Music in my email today.
I guess that is what I was thinking of when I started this thread. I see lots of guys around here buying smaller amps with direct outs, instead of the larger amps that used to carry all the load by themselves. With the GNX4, I stopped bringing my guitar amp to gigs at all, but I still use my small stage bass amp with the GNX4 because I don't want to put any bass guitar back into our stage monitors. Maybe I was ahead of this curve?
Even my git'r amp, which like yours sits quietly in my studio, is a single 12\"er. My dream amp, which I owned the original of ages ago, is the Fender Super Reverb, which is about 45W into 4-10's. It's a tasty rig, but at this point in life (and given the wear and tear on my ol' back) I'd probably find a similar amp that had a single 10 or 12, and sounded just as good. But I can't afford tubes...not with the phone bills I pay to nag Shania into going out with me.
Point is - it all comes down to quality, not quantity, and less is more. I remember reading somewhere that one of those d**k-swinging macho bands like VH or GnR or something like that loaded their stage with literal walls of Marshal 4x12's, but were actually playing through a small, single-speaker Mesa Boogie offstage. Hilarious...maybe that's why Shania ignores me. Not enough Marshalls...
As for musicians go .. they understand the need to haul less an lighter gear around.. But would/does the John Q public buy it, conciously or not? Isn't the show/act as much visuall as it is audible?
Kiss comes to mind as I remember reading, that they hauled X amount of empty cabs around before they \"broke out\" just for the stage visuall.. Maybe not a big deal for a cover band. But if a band was really making an attempt to \"make it\".. Is looking professional as important as sounding professional?
Or has the publics taste changed that they don't care about seeing a band without a massive stack of cabs, whether they know brand names or not? Are taste going towards the 60's look of a guest appearance on what ever show.. Where the band is just there playing no equipment/backline not even chords plugged in to instruments (lol wireless these days, gives that look)
Sorry taus I don't gig and only have a lil Rumble 15 for my needs on bass .. so I have nothing to comment here as far as the thread topic goes..
Yes, if you're KISS or in that league, image/appearance/etc is DEFinitely part of it.
On the other hand...'taus is a working-class dude in a working-class band playing working-class places. Not that I'd know :oops: , but it seems to me that if you SOUND good in a place like that, you'll have happy people and club owners/mgrs.
I recall well being back east visiting friends last fall, and we were in this bar in this little country resort town where people go to chill. There was a band in there - 5 pieces (drums/bass/KB/2 git'rs) that just kicked booty. Great variety of music, all of them sang well, and they nailed everything they did. Sounds a lot like 'taus's group.
And the really funny part was the KB player - a not-so-young, not-so-good-looking guy, had bar skanks hanging ALL over him, and was 'returning their affections', all the while he continued to play his KB parts and add the vox when necessary. Hilarious, and fun to watch, which is the point, right? Even if you're not KISS, VH, whatever?
The visual is probably a good share of the live experience. We have stage lighting that helps, but yeah, we constantly discuss ways to improve the visual without going total gimmicky. An 8X10 Ampeg bass stack looks more impressive than my small 1X15 bass amp. Most of the band's sound comes out of our FOH PA system and not our stage amps. But it's hard to make a great visual statement with just a good sounding PA. I suppose we would probably have more visual success if we just hauled out some empty speaker stacks behind us. I've heard some big bands do that just for the visual, while the sound only really comes out of the PA where the soundguy controls the show.
I know it's important to be crowd-pleasers in any way possible...that gets you repeat gigs. But if you don't SOUND good, what's the point? You've become \"Cheap Dreck\".
'Course, if the visuals are that important to you...get a new lead singer:
Speaking of which, last night I was watching some YouTube videos of Cliff Burton (Metallica) solos. Someone wrote in the comments that his talent was 80% hair. OK, so pretty rough criticism but I think it drives home the point that putting on a good show visually can also make a great impression. Also, once a person passes, I think we tend to deify them to an extent. But I don't throw stones at guys that can/could play things on the guitar/bass that I can't even begin to understand or copy on my own.
Heck, over the past few years, I have become more privately critical of myself and other musicians. But that's because I have grown as a musician and know the abilities and limits of myself and my bandmates (and others I hear/see). If you can't be critical of yourself or others in terms of analysing the music, I don't know how you can improve. In public, I just tell everyone they sound great and leave it at that. Unless you get paid for your critcal analysis of someone, I think a person is just better off saying something good - \"Mama said......\"
But, bringing it back to the original topic, I recently saw a bass player who had a big bass stack that looked really impressive. Closed my eyes and listened to the music, and I realized that his talent was no where good as his rig. I guess you could say his talent was 80% visual rig setup. But it works for him. After all, isn't taste 90% smell? Maybe musical talent is based more on visual impression percentage than I gave it credit?
I was trying to convey that! Not as much musical talent as it is live musical appeal. I mean... I really hate to say this... But were just talking about.. Does size matter :shock: , these days! Being that we all have been conditioned the last 40+ yrs of what a band should look like on stage. So I was just saying, would John Q public subconciously cop an attitude of 'ya these guys are alright but nothing to write home about' . Despite the music being top notch quality. All because when john q walked in you didn't look like what he has been conditioned to expect a band on stage to look like?... I don't know.. Maybe I am not giving John Q enough credit?
Bass isn't my forte' (sometimes I wonder if guitar is.. different thread :P ) But my cuzz.. for yrs humped an ampeg .. then switched to a .. If I remember right a Carver .. Believe he said It fits in the car trunk or back seat and it doesn't need to go to the shop every 3 months for new tubes. 8) The axe men in his outfit mic up 2x12 combos... Down sizing hasn't hurt them.. They still can pack a house and have the rides lined up outside! 8)
Thanks 8)
about 30 are hung ,6 in cases,and I've lost count on how many are in racks
I was Doug's bro and next door neighbor for about 5 years. I got to have Tiger in my hands...
That was the most expensive guitar I ever pawed. It went to Doug after Jerry died. It sold for $850,000 :P
If you want the \"real\" story about Doug, and this whole scene... lemme know.
the Walnut oil finished basses are Moser Custom Shop handmades
the walnut and maple bodied bass is a work between both of our shops.Its called a Wraith and I have Templar Wraith Bass #1.the body and neck were made by Neal &MCS and I did the assembly-electronics-set up and tung oil finish
the one to the right is MCS Templar Genesis Bass #1 custom handmade that was the original version of the \"BC Rich Bich\" shape that Neal invented in 1977 and people from Joe Perry to Dave Mustaine played through the years.
Awesome!................I have popcorn waiting!!!