Portable Handheld Recorders?

gtaus · March 2010

I would like to purchase a portable handheld recorder to record local rock bands live. Problem is, the volume can get high and this can distort recorders. I have been looking at the Zoom H2 http://www.amazon.com/Zoom-H2-Portable-Stereo-Recorder/dp/B000VBH2IG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1267671718&sr=8-1 and the Tascam DR-1 http://www.amazon.com/Tascam-DR-1-Portable-Solid-Recorder/dp/B00076YFCQ/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1TIFNM8E2P8YD&colid=WI3CFAIX9HNL. User's of both units have reported problems with clipping issues, so I don't think either is perfect for what I want. I'm wondering if anyone in this forum either has an opinion on either/both unit(s), or if you would suggest something completely different. I'd like to stay under $200, or at least close to that mark. This clipping issue with loud volume seems to affect all handheld recorders, so it might be something I have to work/live with. I don't know, but I'm not too anxious to get a recorder knowing that it might not work out very well for the main reason I want to get it - that is, to record local live rock bands. Any advice appreciated.

philflood · March 2010

I just sold my Boss Micro BR for under $200. It worked well, but I found I wasn't using it. I've seen the Zoom used, but it was in an acoustic workshop. If you are recording guys you know, see if you can record off their board. That way you can adjust the input level. OF course, the GNX4 is a portable recorder, but its not exactly hand held.

gtaus · March 2010

I've got the Zoom multi-track HD16CD recorder (8 tracks at once) for hookin up to a mixer. It's not much bigger than the GNX4. I'm just looking for something that runs on batteries and fits in my pocket (more or less). I'm not in a great hurry, but I thought it would be good for me to have a small recorder handy for certain things. And one that won't break the bank. Like anything electronic, just when you think you know what's available, new models come out that offer better features.

guitar3456 · March 2010

Zoom, Tascam PDR's are pretty directional. They can do some ok recording but sometimes have an odd compression quality to them. For example, if you put one out in the room and the crowd gets louder or any noise overcomes the directional sound, the recording gets compressed and you song sounds like crap for 2-3 seconds until the limiter recovers. You are better going off your pa mixer to another dat, cdr or other media recorder direct. OTOH, if you can get the Zoom PDR elevated enough, things can work out better for you. They are fine for recording rehearsals.

If you want to add some ambient sound from the audience or from the stage area, just get a couple condenser mics and put them on stands. Record those L and R mixes and you can add those in.

Basic Live audio demo. Just use a good recorder off the FOH mix. IF you use subs, you may need to record the sub out separately.

Try this when recording demos in 5.1.

Mono mix (summed)
Stereo Mix (wide panned LR)
Sub mix (sub out)
Ambient mix for rear ch's.

If you are doing just a FOH with stage mix, go off the board, but output that to another small 4 ch mixer. Add the ambient mic mix, and record 4 tracks. Mix as needed.

gtaus · March 2010

I guess I have not made my desire and use for a handheld recorder specific enough. I am fully aware of recording off the main board, which is what I do with my Zoom HD16CD multi-track recorder for recording my band. That records 8 tracks at once from my mixing board and the sound is fantastic. And, I know that a person can even take the stereo outs from a main board and jack it into these handheld recorders. No doubt, that would result in some good recordings. But that is not what I intend to do with a handheld recorder.

What I want to do with a handheld personal recorder is to walk in off the street into a venue, and if I am enjoying the band, simply pulling out my recorder from my pocket and start recording the music. When done, I'll just put the recorder back in my pocket and head down the street to check out another venue. I don't want to jack into anyone else's main board, and I don't expect that they would let me even if I wanted to. And I'm not expecting demo quality recordings to master to disc. I just want to be able to capture some music on the fly and play it back later at home.

I have a small recorder now but when I try to record live bands the recorder clips really bad. I can't even listen to the music it is so bad. To be fair to my recorder, it is advertised as a voice recorder, so I'm sure that is why the recorder clips out with live music. It just can't handle the loud SPL of a live band. So, I'm just trying to upgrade to a better small portable recorder that does not always clip out and leave me with totally unusable recordings. At most, I'd probably just set up the recorder on a small tripod on my table where I am sitting.

I have been reading that the quality of these small handheld recorders are getting better and better. For example, the Zoom H2 records in 360 degrees, if that is what you want. The Tascam DR-1 also is a pseudo guitar trainer with the ability to time stretch, loop, and pitch shift mp3 files to play along with in practice. But the primary reason I would purchase a handheld recorder is to record other bands, not my own, and without jacking into a mixer. Since I live in a small town, I'm kind of limited to reading reviews and eventually having to order a recorder off the internet. The nearest Guitar shop that would sell these type of recorders is about 3 hours drive away. And we are not talking about a Guitar Center that would carry a number of models to try out or choose from.

I'm hoping someone here in the forum might have one or more of these handheld recorders and can give me some useful things to think about before I order a recorder based on sales ads alone. Right now, I'm pretty much reading user reviews on Amazon.com and doing Google searches on recorders. Problem is, user reviews are usually not very specific (\"Great value for the money\"), and the commercial reviews are many times nothing more than a rehash of the sales literature without the unit even being tested in the field.

Anyway, I appreciated the comments so far, but I think I must have mislead you guys about the intent and use of these recordings. I'm not expecting to mix and master any of these files when I get back home. I won't be jacking into any mixing boards. I just need to be able to pull out a recorder and set it on the table to record a tune or two if I want. Since I intend to record live bands, my main concern is the ability of such a recorder to handle the ambient SPL without clipping out on me. Again, thanks for the comments.

iliace · March 2010

Funny story. I sat in for a reggae band on rhythm guitar for a show last Saturday. The opening band was a reggae-style Beatles cover band. It sounded so sweet - the sound guy knew them well and did an awesome job with the mix. So I was trying to get an audio recording, because I wanted my brother to hear it (he's all about reggae and Beatles).

I did this with my Treo 650 phone. But then I listened back to it - sounds like total crap. Everything is distorted, you can barely make out what the songs are (and trust me I know my Beatles).

For your purposes I would say test out several, and if you can get detailed specs on the microphone that's built-in, do that beforehand.

The vocalist/guitarist/ringleader of one of my bands has an Olympus DS-30. Here's a sample recordings we did in rehearsal, back when I first started with them and didn't really know the songs:

http://www.44lbs.net/ilia/CBD.WMA
http://www.44lbs.net/ilia/NS_lead.wma

For reference, you can hear the \"final\" version of the second one here:

http://www.myspace.com/makeloveandwar

Song is called Never Surrender.

gtaus · March 2010

\iliace\ wrote:

...I did this with my Treo 650 phone. But then I listened back to it - sounds like total crap. Everything is distorted, you can barely make out what the songs are (and trust me I know my Beatles)....

That's exactly what I am talking about. My current mp3 recorder does an excellent job for voice, classroom lectures, etc... but can't handle the SPL of live music and the music recordings sound terrible.

Rawb · March 2010

\gtaus\ wrote:

\iliace\ wrote:

...I did this with my Treo 650 phone. But then I listened back to it - sounds like total crap. Everything is distorted, you can barely make out what the songs are (and trust me I know my Beatles)....

That's exactly what I am talking about. My current mp3 recorder does an excellent job for voice, classroom lectures, etc... but can't handle the SPL of live music and the music recordings sound terrible.

Well this is probably a stupid thought.... But have you tried putting it in a cloth bag of some sorts and or taping a piece of clothe over the BIM.. Perhaps that might filter out some of the highs an room reverb an sound bouncing etc... Hey, stupid thoughts are my forte'. so don't yell at me!

gtaus · March 2010

That's actually a good idea. I wonder if there is some way to attenuate the SPL without muffling the recording. I would not want to end up with a non-clipping recording that sounded like it was recorded from under a pillow, for example. But if there is some kind of acoustic foam to tame the SPL without killing the sound quality/frequency response of the recording, that would be great.

guitar3456 · March 2010

If you are just wanting a decent portable unit the Zoom and Tascam units are both good. Edirol, and Maudio are good too, but imo the Zoom H2 H4 (I really like this model) are better over all. If you want higher quality, the Sony units seem to be made better. The Zoom's took some hit on repair problems but then again, I'd imagine they out sell Sony 5-1 given the price, so dealer return figures might be subjective.

gtaus · March 2010

I know on Amazon.com the Zoom H2 had something like 419 reviews whereas the Tascam DR-1 had about 30. Granted, during most of that time the H2 was selling for less than $200.00 while the DR-1 was about $300.00. Now the price difference is about $50.00 and both are under $200.00 because the Tascam DR-1 has been discounted and replaced with the newer DR-2D.

For straight up budget recording, I like the features and accessories of the H2 better. But the DR-1 has time stretch and pitch change functions that as a guitarist I might find useful. So, it's not an easy choice when you start comparing apples to oranges and when you have to guess how much certain features may be worth to you in the long run.

guitar3456 · March 2010

DR-07 has the time and pitch features. Nice model, but imo the mics are not their strength.

Portable Handheld Recorders?

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