Have I outgrown my Bass Guitar?
Learning how to play bass on \"Sweet Emotion\" by Aerosmith. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmBKI-hDgCU Cool bass line. The technique is to barre the A/D/G strings with the middle finger on the 12th fret and work around the strings. Easier said than done. The action on my bass is too high for me to barre those strings and get a clean sound. I used to play rhythm guitar for years, so it's not a matter of knowing how to barre strings, it's purely a physical ability to barre the bass strings this high on the neck. Although, I have to admit, this is the first song I have ever played on the bass that I needed to barre any strings. I would not have a problem barring lower on the neck.
Anyway, as far as my bass guitar goes, I am currently playing a Dean 10A 4 string bass which until now has been all I needed. I can't adjust the action any lower without getting buzz. I'm wondering if more expensive guitars have lower action? Or do I just need to keep working on barring these strings until I can get it sounding good? Finally, can anyone tell me how high the action should be at the 12th fret on a good bass guitar - so I can compare it to my Dean 10A and it's setup? Like I said, I don't think I can lower the action on my bass guitar any further. When I first got the guitar, we lowered the action till it buzzed and then brought the strings up a tad. So, I'm wondering if I have finally outgrown this bass?
Anyway, as far as my bass guitar goes, I am currently playing a Dean 10A 4 string bass which until now has been all I needed. I can't adjust the action any lower without getting buzz. I'm wondering if more expensive guitars have lower action? Or do I just need to keep working on barring these strings until I can get it sounding good? Finally, can anyone tell me how high the action should be at the 12th fret on a good bass guitar - so I can compare it to my Dean 10A and it's setup? Like I said, I don't think I can lower the action on my bass guitar any further. When I first got the guitar, we lowered the action till it buzzed and then brought the strings up a tad. So, I'm wondering if I have finally outgrown this bass?
Comments
But I was wondering.. did you do a fret job on that bass when you got it?
Bolt on neck? maybe you can shim it?
String height is measured from fret to bottom of string. You need to also check for loose or high frets, and fix as needed.
Neck radius 7.25\" Relief (at 8th fret) .014\" String height (at 17th fret) Bass side-7/64\" Treble side-6/64\"
Neck radius 9.5\" to 12\" Relief (at 8th fret) .010\" String height (at 17th fret) Bass side--6/64\" Treble side-5/64\"
Neck radius 15\" to 17\" Relief (at 8th fret) .008\" String height (at 17th fret) Bass side--6/64\" Treble side-5/64\"
Next check pickup height.
Depress the outer strings at the last fret and measure from the top of the pole piece to the bottom of the string on both the bass and treble sides of the pickup.
Bass pickup type Vintage Bass side 8/64\" Treble side 6/64\"
Bass pickup type American/Mexican Std. Bass side 6/64\" Treble side 5/64\"
Bass pickup type Lace Sensors Bass side Close as desired(allowing for string vibration) Treble side Close as desired(allowing for string vibration)
When I first got this bass guitar, the Dean 10A, I had a problem with the fret edges cutting into my left hand. I tried polishing the edges to smooth them out a bit, but ended up just playing the guitar and wearing down the rough edges with my sandpaper hand! The first night I cut my fingers on the edges (ouch) but after that I haven't had a problem. The more I play it, the smoother the edges have become. But that first night was painful. Oh well, memories.
This guitar does have a bolt on neck. I had not thought about a shim, but I'll give it consideration after I follow Manitou's directions.
My brother-in-law set it up for me when I first got it. The Dean 10A plays so much better than my old Kramer, but this is the first time I have ever tried to use a barre technique on the bass, and the strings are pretty high at the 12th fret. But, like I said, I'm comparing the string height of this bass to my 6 string guitar, which is probably not the correct way to compare. Anyway, I don't have the finger strength to barre the strings to get a nice clean sounding note(s) like I need. So, I don't know if the limit is in me or the bass.
There is one guy at the local music shop who sets up guitars \"professionally\", but he is not a very pleasant type of person. He is the type of person who goes out of his way to find something bad to say about every guitar he works on that is not his. I don't know if he just tries to get you to buy a more expensive guitar from their shop, or if he's just an a-hole by nature. But most working guitarists around here avoid him because of his attitude and constant negative comments towards our working guitars. Not everyone can afford a Music Man bass, or a Gibson LP Custom, etc... And, even if I could, I would not want to use that guitar on stage for our bar room gigs.
He also is a brand whore, if I can use that language on this forum. He judges guitars by the label on the headstock. The only one I know that had a guitar that this guy actually liked was my brother-in-law who had bought a used Jackson from a pawn shop for $40.00. The Jackson is a jap knock-off, but you can't really tell unless you look up the serial number. Anyway, this guy really liked my brother-in-law's Jackson. I suppose he thought he was working on a $1300.00 guitar. Anyway, after being all set up and working good, the Jackson does not play as well as a $150 Ibanez I picked up for banging on. I'm not kidding. We compared the two guitars at home side by side. Both my brother-in-law and I still gets laughs about it.
So, I'll try to set up the guitar myself, or bring it elsewhere for a professional set up if I have to. Manitou gave some good specs for me to check out on my guitar. Also, just for fun, I'll be going into town later today and try out a Fender Precision Bass which the local shop has on sale. I'd like to compare the action on my Dean to the action on a $1300 Fender bass to see if there is much difference. The shop has the American Standard Fender Precision bass guitars on sale for $750.00. I don't know if if the saleperson gave me the right info, but I looked up the guitar in MF and they sell the American Fender Precisions for $1299.99. Anyway, I'll have to check it out. Maybe it's a blowout before Christmas because they need the money. Or, maybe it's not a true American Standard Fender but a less expensive model.
But yeah, one way or another I'll probably have to reset this guitar.
Thanks, Manitou. That's the kind of tech specs I was looking for so I could measure the action on my bass to see if it is actually \"high\" or not. I'm going into town later today and I'll be looking for a feeler gauge set. The more I get into guitars, the more I'm trying to do things myself.
I like the sound and feel of my Dean 10A, but I just ran into my first problem with it trying to barre the strings at the 12th fret. Don't know yet if it is the guitar or me.
I've been playing inexpensive bass guitars because I never really thought I'd be playing this long. I had my old Kramer, which I bought used for $50 from a friend. Played that bass for almost 2 years and made over $4000 gigging with it. Then I got this Dean 10A, which is much easier to play, and paid less than $130 for it on sale. I've gigged enough with it to put another $1500 in my pocket. To me, it sounds every bit as good as some of the more expensive guitars I have tried out. But then, playing through the GNX4, everything sounds better. I'll move on to another bass if I have to. I have saved up enough money for an upgrade. I'd expect the more expensive bass guitars to have better playability, but I don't know. After almost 3 years of playing bass, I am actually starting to get a feel for the instrument and maybe I'll be able to tell the difference between my budget models and the more expensive guitars. Until now, my bass guitar has been better than my ability. But maybe I just moved up a notch on my skill level...?
Tou thanks fer the relief specs ... I knew the 3/32 starting point was the same for the bass But I never confirmed it.. For some reason I always thought bass was different.. And I didn't want to share potentially bogus info. 8)
Taus if everything is adjusted right? or should say where you want it, you might have to look at the nut.. prepared to cut a new nut? Remove and install? Some tone misers may whine ... but you could probably get away with puting a shim under a string at the nut if need be.. All of them LoL them, then you may want to get over to stu-mac for the nut file set!
So you want to play more chords on the bass? :shock: :twisted: Check out some Stanley Clark I was always partial to School daze, cool tune imo . ... Dang I gotta go look that up now... Ain't heard it in decades.. :roll: 8) Well... maybe A decade... LMAO
No, I'm really not full of GAS, despite the Holiday season. Although I have put aside my gigging money for upgrades in my musical equipment, I am currently \"between jobs\" so I am doing everything I can not to spend money unless I have to. I just talked to my brother-in-law about my situation, and he said that he would take a look at my bass again. When he first set it up for me, he maximized the playability for the lower frets. But now that I am playing on the higher frets, he said we should spend more time on the neck and action to account for my needs. He doesn't think I need a new bass, just need to set it up for playing above the 12th fret. I took a real close look at the neck after talking to my brother-in-law and there is a small curve around the middle, so maybe a truss rod adjustment will help straighten that out and allow him to take down the action a bit more. That would suit me fine.
I've had GAS attacks before but this is not one of them. I just want to play the song (Sweet Emotion) the way it's supposed to be played up on the 12th fret barring the strings. And no, I won't buy a new bass just to play this one song. But I certainly would have my bass set up again by my brother-in-law or pay someone to \"professionally\" set it up if it improves the playability of this guitar and gets me further down the road.
BTW, I've got a beautiful 5 string Yamaha Bass that does have a lower action, but I'm staying away from the beast until I feel more comfortable on the 4 string basses. Also, I don't have large hands so playing the 5 string bass presents me with other challenges. And I really don't need a low B string for what we play. For the moment, I just want to concentrate on playing the 4 string bass well.
After I check out the string height measurements with those given to me from Manitou, I'll have a better idea if it is the guitar or me that needs adjustment. Well, I know I need adjustment...but that's a constant problem...it would be easier to adjust the guitar. Best wishes.
I don't know how good your sight is, but I also use magnifier goggles when I do this kind of work. You will see those frets better too.
Absolutely, you can get this bass adjusted properly, even slightly customized to your particular needs. The guide above is just a standard to go by. You may have to dress the frets, if you want close action, and that may only amount to a few that cause you some buzz. You can go to different gauge strings for easier tension, as well as different tuning, same as you do on your guitar.
But once you have this all set up sweet, and you still aren't happy. Armed now with this set up details, you'll know more what to look for in your next bass. Check out different scale necks, different radius necks, neck shapes, and you will find what \"fits\" you best. Play all the different radius and scales. (neck length) The shorter necks will be easier to bar, also with lighter gauge strings.
You already know how so many guitars all feel different, and there are certain necks that just seem to fit your hand better. I think when you go up in scale and gauge with bass guitars, the differences are more blunt.
But those bass players also have a grip like a monkey swinging from a tree. They can hang there with one finger and fling poo at you all day. :P
http://www.fender.com/support/bass_guitar_setup_guide.php
I went to the local music store this afternoon. The guy who does guitar setups was not there, but one of the other workers showed me the metal ruler used to measure string height. So I plan on getting one of those soon. I'll check the local hardware stores as I make my shopping rounds.
While at the music shop, I also checked out all their bass guitars for string height. I brought along a little tape measure, not as good as the metal ruler, but that's all I had at that point. Anyway, I measured the string height on everything from their cheapest to their most expensive bass. There was not as much difference in string height as I thought there would be. To make a long story short, when I got back home, my string height was as low as the lowest in the store, and lower than the most expensive bass guitars (American Standard Fender Precision) I looked at today. So, I now know that it's me that needs the adjustment, and not my guitar.
I wrote down a few comments when I first got my bass and we set it up. We actually raised the strings a bit to eliminate some buzz. I may look at lowering the strings some more, if possible. In the meantime, I have started practicing barring the strings on my bass at the 12th fret and, going slowly, trying to get a good clean tone. After about half an hour of good practice, I made some good progress. I guess I'll have to slowly increase my strength in the left hand, but I figure that half an hour a day will probably get me there in about a week. I really made good progress on my practice, once I stopped being a baby about it, and realized that my bass was as low, if not lower, than most of the bass guitars hanging on the local music shop wall. Fretting the bass guitar is just going to be tougher than fretting my 6 string guitars, that's all. I guess I'll live with it.
FWIW, I also read an article that when you press down on the first and last frets of the guitar, there should be only a slight gap at the 12th fret - about the width of a business card. I tried that on my bass and it was spot on. I mentioned before that my neck has a slight curve in it. In the article I read, it said that is exactly what you want (hence the business card width gap at the 12th fret). So I guess I don't need any truss rod adjustment either. If anything, I would try a lighter gauge of strings for easier playing. But for now, I'm just going to spend more time practicing fretting the bass and less time complaining about how hard it is to play.
As for the sound of the guitar, I've always liked the tone of my Dean 10A just as well as guitars costing hundreds of dollars more. I think that the active electronics really make a huge difference, and also the GNX4 just makes it sound even better. So, I'm ending the day feeling better about my guitar, and once again, less happy with my abilities. Oh well, practice cures a lot of shortcomings.....
So - seen Shania at any of your gigs lately? I know she misses me and is looking for stuff to do...
I've been using the medium and heavy gripmaster for over a year now, and it's made a great difference. I needed this to get better legato. I don't play guitar enough to actually build the hand strength. Sounds like you play allot more than me, so I'm just throwing this idea out there, if it's any help.
I don't play bass, but I've heard even regular bass players feel the strain. I can imagine if you are a part time player, it's tough.
I feel sorry for bass players. They have to practice with a hot dog for at least 20 minutes, to relax their hand before they spank their monkey, or they could do some serious damage. :P
She was wearing an orange snow suit, oakley sunglasses, and a cashmere scarf. They were going pretty fast. I'm sure it was her when she squealed, after gaining so much speed on the downslope. Only saw her for like 5 seconds. I shouldn't have picked a spot on such a steep slope.
It was so cold that day, my left leg was frostbit from sitting on it so long.
Took me until past dark to hobble the 3 miles back to my car. Man...you shoulda been there!!! 8)
Speaking of jokes: Q. How do you make a million dollars playing bass? A. Start with two million dollars!
and this seasonal little ditty:
A father buys his 15 year old son a bass guitar for Christmas and signs him up for 4 free lessons. The first week the boy comes back from his lesson and dad asks him what he learned. \"I learned the first 5 notes on the E string.\" OK. Next week the boy reports, \"I learned the first 5 notes on the A string.\" Alright. Dad thinks he sees the pattern here. The third week, however, the son does not come home from his lesson until late in the night. He smells badly of cigarrettes and alcohol. Dad asks the boy, what happened at your bass lesson this week? \"Don't know,\" the boy responds, \"I got picked up for a gig since I already know everything I need for playing bass!\"
Good ones 'taus.
The second one is the full-length version of the one I like:
Q: Why did the bass player miss his third lesson?
A: 'Cuz he had a gig...