Guitar to Bass patches questions

Antony · February 2009

I use my six string for my bass parts using the patches I've downloaded and some I (pathetically) made. I've had a couple of basses over the years, but feel more comfortable using my guitar. Until recently, bass has been an afterthought to me.
Question for those who do the same-do you play over the same octaves for bass and guitar, and if so, would it cause some tonal imbalances. I just wonder because I usually have a hard time finding pocket for the guitar and the bass to sit together, and I have to eq the heck out of one or the other, or both.

Thanks for any input
Robert Anthony

jamminmj · February 2009

Well I would guess that does'nt leave any room for the kick drum either.
Sorry I don't mean to appear snobish, But Perhaps you should listen to Big Bottom by Spinal Tap or you could listen to Ronnie Montrose's Open Fire album and learn about dividing things into thier proper frequency spectrums. I just personally have a problem with what I refer to as Mudd mixes. And that is not being able to distingquish the rhythem guitar and bass and the 3k click kick drum that could just as well be a metronome because it doesn't fit anywhere else in the mix or, perhaps you should get a midi pickup and a sound module to create more realistic bass tones to go with your guitar. Try panning the bass and guitar left and right and the kick drum center if you haven't already. But if it doesn't work in mono, It doesn't work.

cyclonic · February 2009

to me....bass is the foundation which the song is forged on...........with out it there to glue the tempo(drums) with the melody line(guitar and vocals).If you listen to R&B from a distance,letting the melody fade,you here the bass part being a basic run of the melody.....the progression

so take the dominating notes from the melody line and you'll find your bass part.

i hope that makes sense

guitar3456 · February 2009

The difference in Guitar>bass presets is the pitch usage has about a 8-10 msec delay since you are only hearing the processed sound. Some artifacts are present but can be dialed out. Try not to use compression on the preset since you can better address that in the recording DAW using multiband compression.

If using an actual bass, it's usually better since the string size themselves accommodate the low end much better with no artifacts.

Tip- If you are using Guitar> Bass sims:

Lower the attack and sens on the noise gate of the patch.
use the plucker gate type and compare.

Once you minimized the gate and have a decent general sound for the guitar to bass sim, record the track. Once you have recorded the track, before you go into any VST or plugin efx:

Always zoom in on the track in the DAW and clean up the little artifacts (noise) ! You will see it plastered all over the track once you zoom in. Take your time removing that noise and watch how much clearer the bass sim presents itself in the mix. I do the same thing when a midi controller pad or kb is used to record midi bass lines.

Always get the drum and bass tracks cohesive enough before laying down other track mixes. Even if you recorded guitar tracks, mute them and focus on the D&B before the next step.

If the timing presents an issue due to the 8-10 msec latency, nudge the track slightly in its track position relative to the drums. Most of the time, that is an easier fix to remedy what doesn't seem \"tight\" or in the pocket.... and it is caused by the delay from the pitch effect that messes with your timing. Granted, the pitch effect is pretty good for this lower level of a processor or all in one. Better rack pitch shifters still account for 2-3 msec latency but are much more expensive rigs.

Antony · February 2009

Thanks for the replies. I try to scoop out little pockets for the bass and guitar, even using voxengo span to see where I need to cut/boost frequencies, if I can't hear them. It does seem using the guitar to bass patches I get many artifacts, as guitar3456 said. I once spent 4 hours with volume envelopes to cut out the little spikes and then ended up trashing the whole track. Those bass patches seem to generate alot of little crackling noise and tonal problems, even though I know I'm playing in the right scales.

I'll try lowering noise gate settings to see what I can come up with, but I'm probably just going to buy a bass; recording the way I have been just takes too long fiddling with the settings and then trying to fix what I recorded during mixing.

Thanks again
Robert Anthony

partch · February 2009

Why not get a cheap Bass? It will make a huge difference having an actuall Bass & not trying to make your guitar sound like one! Never worked for me either. Good luck Antonty! My 2 cents is get a Bass 8)

Rawb · February 2009

\Antony\ wrote:

but I'm probably just going to buy a bass;
Thanks again
Robert Anthony

I got a cheap squire P bass. Kinda wish I wasn't so hasty! But it gets the job done.

shredd · February 2009

My first bass was an Ibanez GSR200. Cost less than $150 and served me very well while I learned to play, and record...

guitar3456 · February 2009

When I record with G>Bass presets I cheat a little. Especially if I am just making a few tracks for inspiration of new ideas. To get the ball rolling its a lot faster to do this-

First watch the level of the guitar controls. For brighter bass cut the tone control back but play near the bridge. For darker, I just take the tone control down on the guitar and reduce the vol somewhat enough so that the track recorded is not clipped.

Also, when using the G>bass sims, use the compressor!! Why? The compressor remember, feeds the input of the pitch sim... thus reducing the input on heavy attacks that the pitch sim cannot detect as signal clip!!

NEXT-

Make clips of each measure, edit and copy and paste

Saves time, and you can save the bass grooves for other projects.

I even have clips of dead air in various beat styles/measure lengths. Really speeds up the process and you can cut and paste into any track when you want silence. Uniformity is not an issue with the \"nudge\" tool :twisted:

Antony · March 2009

Well I broke down and bought a (fairly) cheap bass, Hofner like Mccartney's except cherry in color. Made in China, it's the cheaper version of the German made. I played with it today for about 2 hours, except now I've got to take off for work and will be gone until Sunday, and even as I type this I know it's gonna kill me thinking about my new toy.

I can already tell the difference, and if anyone else was using their six string with the pitch shift to bass, just get a cheap bass...no artifacts, richer tone and no need to eq the heck out of the tracks to get seperation.

Robert Anthony

Guitar to Bass patches questions

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