Are Booking Agents worth the $$$
I'd like to get some feedback from you guys on your experiences with booking agents. My band is seriously thinking about hiring a booking agent to get us more exposure and better paying gigs. However, none of us in the band have any experience with hiring a booking agent and what we need to know going into the arrangement. If you have experience, either positive or negative, I'd like to hear and learn from you guys.
The reason this topic came up is that a few people have told me that our band should be working with a booking agent because we are at a level now that we need someone else to promote the band to a higher level while we concentrate on the music.
We played 43 gigs last year booking our own shows. However, there were lots of repeated venues and $300-400 nights (average around here). However, we have our sights set higher and I don't think we can get there both booking ourselves and working on our music at the same time. I personally don't care much about the money as it does not pay my bills, but getting better paying gigs usually means getting into venues where we would get better exposure. I would hope that the booking agent would get those better venues, but I don't know.
Any stories to tell about booking agents?
The reason this topic came up is that a few people have told me that our band should be working with a booking agent because we are at a level now that we need someone else to promote the band to a higher level while we concentrate on the music.
We played 43 gigs last year booking our own shows. However, there were lots of repeated venues and $300-400 nights (average around here). However, we have our sights set higher and I don't think we can get there both booking ourselves and working on our music at the same time. I personally don't care much about the money as it does not pay my bills, but getting better paying gigs usually means getting into venues where we would get better exposure. I would hope that the booking agent would get those better venues, but I don't know.
Any stories to tell about booking agents?
Comments
Booking agents- hit or miss. Depends how many groups they work with. Some can get you into good shows, some are a middle man you have to use to get into certain venues and usually the venue will confirm if that is the case.
They may require an upfront service, or are paid as a pctg of the gig purse. Some can get you into sponsor oriented gigs like Beer co's and the likes which are usually pretty good gigs.
On the downside, they may have their pick of the litter and won't be so much getting you into premiere events and save those for their fav's. Others are contractual agreements you define as to which services they provide.
Watch out and ask around. Some bands will tell you it's a joke and others will say the opposite. In these times, many venues are not really requiring services of agencies or agents and just go first come first serve and book bands in advance.
Agents usually required larger fees for the groups and venue mgt quickly figured out to get their entertainment their own way since even agencies cannot guarantee followings. They can talk it up, but there are bands with guys that do their own PR.. sounds like you guys have that kicked playing as often as you do. The $$ is all about venue mgt and demographics. As soon as you take LESS just to get in, you set yourself up for not being able to change your rates and mgt will always remind you of that.
OTOH there are specific venues that you can only get in with an agency or agent. House of Blues here is one of them, but worth the effort to get those kind of gigs under your belt. You may be an opener, or part of a multi group local show when National entertainment is not provided.
I thought now was a good time to bring up the booking agent idea to the band as I can foresee less gigs in the future while our member is sitting at home with new baby. It would take the pressure off of him to get out there and get the gigs. Also, I really feel that we are worth more money than we have played for at some venues. I don't much care about the money except that gigging money I make goes right back into gear upgrades. If we made more money as a band, we would look at upgrading our complete PA system and adding a sound guy out front. At our current gigging wages, that is not an option.
My brother-in-law was in a band out in California. They had a great booking agent and he says that is the way to go. I'm sure it all depends on the agent and how hard they work for the band. But he had a really positive experience with their booking agent and said their agent was well worth the money he took for his fees. I'm sure not all agents are that good, which is why I wanted to some other viewpoints also.
Since we have been successful at getting our own gigs, I have even wondered if some kind of hybrid collaboration would be possible, where the booking agent is filling holes in the future schedule only. But, none of us in the band have ever worked with an agent before so we are asking all kinds of questions so we can better make up our mind.
So, I'm all ears if anyone has some other thoughts.
In some cases, if you take on an agent they might tell you bookings are only done through them. That can be fine if they are the type that are responsible and thorough. Around here, they're pretty lazy and becoming a rarity. Some of the venues have their own agent that will usually check out a group elsewhere and base their recommendation on what they see.
In the 80's we had a booking agent and did very well. Today, it's quite a bit different and most bands compete at DJ fee levels. Venues have started supporting more Live entertainment, but it's rare to see the $1000 gigs these days. Almost always figure 100-150/man. If you have roadies or even one guy that isn't in the band, but assists in that way, include them. You might get that extra man pay since most venues give an avg per guy including any utility or lighting/sound guy you may have with you.
We are up to $100 per man per night, but if we add a sound guy we would need more than our average $400 gig. Also, if we went with a booking agent, that's an extra cost. So, the booking agent would have to get more for us than we currently get for ourselves or it's a non-starter.
None of the local bands that I personally know around here use booking agents. But we are to the point where we want to start taking more gigs further out on the road - if it pays. Hence, another reason we are looking into booking agents. We need someone who knows the venues and how to get us in. At least, that's the idea.
Are you planning on staying local or traveling further? If your thinking more reginal maybe a manager may be of some benifit ( if their rep is good ) they may know the venues that are further away. My personal opinion is, I don't think you may need one. If your really just looking to relieve some of the work/pressure/time from the band. Maybe a spouse or good friend loyal to the band can take over that duty. And along with that, over see a/your web page and or my space page etc. If your going to give 40 50 bucks away everyweek/gig why not share it with someone who believes in the bands vision? Heck they may do it for 25 bucks. Whoever was doing the booking just help out with the known places and inform them that so an so will be booking for them to get them started.
I'm only basing my opinion on the fact that you say your in a pretty small market anyway. Can a 'pro' lol semi pro booking agent really benift the band? good luck in whatever route you go!
Aw never mind ! LoL you posted while I was typing
And speaking of working hard, we have found that lots of local venues do nothing to advertise their place or the band they hired. We have played some venues that don't even have a sign out front advertising a live band for the weekend. If you drove past the place, you would not even know that a band was playing that night. We give the management our posters and some tabletop advertising, but sometimes they are too lazy, or whatever, to even put up the posters in their own club. We have talked about different ideas to do more advertising for the band, but if the club won't advertise for themselves, it's hard to know what to do. We have talked about the idea of getting a lighted billboard to put out in front of the venue, but that would require more room than we currently have available in the van. Anyway, there are a number of things we hope that a booking agent could do for us that we don't do, or don't know how to do, for ourselves.
How do you guys get paid? We have been charging a flat rate rather than a percentage of the door because most bands around here will get screwed by the management if working on a percentage basis. I don't want to offend any of you honest bar owners/managers, but our experience is that most people that hang with the band drink more than $5.00 per night! Another issue we have to deal with here in Northern Minnesota is the cold weather. We have played some nights where is was -20 degrees below zero and even colder. When the weather gets that cold, nobody wants to go out. It's just too hard on the cars, and people. So if we agreed to a percentage of the door on those winter nights, we'd be playing for less than gas money.
Having said that, the venues that we play fairly often are working good for us. We have steadily built up good crowds and, if the accounting was honest, we'd probably double our rate if we took 20% of the register. Just curious on how you guys get paid and how you estimate/verify the door/till at the end of the night. Like I said, we have been charging a flat rate and not taking any percentage deals. Thanks.
I remeber at an Ozzfest in Houston one year they had a side stage for local bands. I had a friends band that had an agent that booked them at that show. They also played around the country--this was his job. He made about $40,000(4pc band) that year. As I said though, this was his job and played prob almost every night accross the country and some good size venues ie festivals etc.
Hopefully this helps
We have an outfit done here that appears to be a booking agent, but is really just a promotional materials provider. Be sure the service you are getting is what you want.
Good luck and best wishes.
Phil
Personally, I am not opposed to paying an agent a percentage of our bookings. I think people should be paid for their work. But if he just wants to help with a couple of bookings as a favor, I'm not opposed to that either. There are a lot of good people in this business who are willing to help one another, and that is great. Unfortunately, there are also a lot of people who are not very honest. You learn not to trust people pretty fast. So I really understand the comments about being careful. Thanks.
The reason I had this idea is because when I was selling my house on my own, I contacted by e-mail all agents in the area and told them I'd pay them 3% commision for selling my house. I had numerous responses from owners/brokers whom passed along info to their agents and even had two offices bring all of their agents for a tour.
Sounds like your drummer has a good friend to do this for you. My grand-pappy always said, \"take anything for free, whether you need it or not\".
Good luck to ya
Our new drummer is actually a music major at the local University. I don't know how he knows this other guy, but good drummers are hard to pick up around here and often end up gigging with many bands and meet a lot of musicians that way, so I imagine our drummer has played with this other guy a time or two before he came into our band.
We had a good drummer before, but this young kid is even better. Unfortunately, it sounds like we are going to lose him this spring as he has applied for a position on one of those luxury cruise liners. He's a great kid and I wish him the best. He plans on setting us up with another drummer and transition him into the band before he leaves, but who knows. One thing for sure, you have a better chance of getting a \"professional\" drummer when they know there is money on the table and paying gigs on the schedule just coming into the band. It's not like we need someone to practice with us guitarists for months before we can hit the stage. If the drummer is ready, we won't miss a beat, so to speak.
I like your grand-pappy's comment. We will gladly accept anyone's free help along the way. My point to the other guys in the band is that we played 43 gigs last year, but we need to start raising our rates and getting into bigger venues to continue to grow, which I know we can do. We have talked, and talked, about creating a website for the band, but none of us has the time to devote to the site and keep it current. We are to the opinion that a \"dead\" website reflects poorly on the band so if we do decide to get a website, we need someone dedicated to keep it current. We have not found that person yet. As I have said before, I am not opposed to paying people for their work, but the decision is not mine alone and \"band\" decision sometimes take longer to form and work out. Same goes for a booking agent. It just takes time for some things to work though the band and feel right. We have had some people approach us asking to be our booking agent, but when we ask around, you often find out their reputation is not very solid and we just pass. It would be too easy to get into a bad arrangement like so many here have warned against. So, until we find someone who can do the job and we feel comfortable with their honesty, we will just continue to do it ourselves.