Cables?
I had recently read an article on cables. Aside from construction quality, the aurthor talked about how different cables affect tone! To a certain degree.
Now I never gave that much thought, other than quality of the cable. I just thought it transfered the signal as is to the amp. Then the amp would color it as per its make and model.
But after reading that, it got me thinking. Yea I can see how the type and quality of the materials used could affect the signal somewhat.
So I am curous. All you axe slingers out there with several top shelf cables. Have you ever noticed/experiened a difference in tone ( brighter/muddier etc ) with different cables using the exact same set up, but with different cables.
Is this being to nit picky? And if their is some truth to this, Got any suggestions for matching a cable to a guitar/type of pick up?
And if this is true would/do different wireless systems affect tone also?
Now I never gave that much thought, other than quality of the cable. I just thought it transfered the signal as is to the amp. Then the amp would color it as per its make and model.
But after reading that, it got me thinking. Yea I can see how the type and quality of the materials used could affect the signal somewhat.
So I am curous. All you axe slingers out there with several top shelf cables. Have you ever noticed/experiened a difference in tone ( brighter/muddier etc ) with different cables using the exact same set up, but with different cables.
Is this being to nit picky? And if their is some truth to this, Got any suggestions for matching a cable to a guitar/type of pick up?
And if this is true would/do different wireless systems affect tone also?
Comments
I will also vouch that I've experienced inferior tone with lesser cables, but they were considerably crappier. I'm not talking about LiveWire, I mean more like Radioshack.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Monster-Cable-P500-Microphone-Cable?sku=331680
Overkill? Sure. Plus, you can find better deals on Mogami. But man, the weight of that thing in your hand is just.... muah! Magnifique.
The top brands are all about equal in quality, so if you can get one on-sale...use them.
It's one of those \"get watcha pay for\" deals, although the high and low end are IMO out of consideration.
The cheap $5 Radio Shack cables are useless for anything but hanging the guy next door who plays nothing but Celine Dion covers.
The ones over about $40 for a 12-16 footer are just money suckers.
It's sort of like computers. There's a price/value cross in the middle of the field that is where to buy.
You wouldn't buy the cheap $249 puter; it'd be sub-standard.
But nor is it necessary to buy the $5000 bleeding-edge Alienware, cuz it's not going to be thousands of dollars \"better\" than a nice $1799 high end \"normal\" puter.
Buy in the middle, you'll probably do fine.
FWIW - look on MF - which carries about 3000 different cables - read the user feedback; it usually gives mention of pro and cons of any item. Good for cables, it's kept me from buying crappy ones many times.
I've had many MF, Horizon, etc cables that were in the $10-15 range for 10 and 20 footers, and they're just fine. I also have some nice 20' OSP ones I got for about 12 bux that are very solid. Good plugs. The plugs are important, get Switchcraft ones when you can. And if you don't tie them up in knots, spiral shield is better than braided, less leakage.
I'd NEEEEVER use anything subpar, but spending 40-50 and up for a Mogami or Monster is not worth the extra $, IMO.
If it breaks you have to replace it with a metal one anyway and if the shell
of the jack provides ground contact, your asking for noise from a sloppy
connection or non contact. Using a cable with a good heavy braided shield for guitars will give you better noise rejection. Not so much of an issue at home unless you use flourescent lighting or work around computer monitors alot.We all do. But will probably make more of a difference when you are out playing live in clubs etc. The ice machine , neon signs, what ever else might be tied into the electical system etc. With balanced mic and line level cables there is a definet benefit to using a quad cable like Mogami as it will provide increased noise rejection at lower frequencies. Cheap cables are also prone to having less shield wrap and inferior cheap thin metal connectors besides terrible solder joints. I have also had my share of molded cables that the polarity was backwards between the two ends. Using a good Belden or Mogami cable with Switchcraft or Neutrik connectors will get you alot farther with alot less aggravation. Although when it comes to XLR connectors I'm Switchcraft all the way. Learn to build your own cables and you will play more and fix less. A sound system is only as good as it's cheapist component. You can get good cable and connectors without breaking the bank. While I have never heard a cable that makes my guitar really sound better, I have heard plenty of cables that make it less noisy. Don't use solderless connectors, Radio stations love em.
All cables do that.
I'm with jamminmj, Learn how to make your own cables, it takes a little effort and a little time but it will save you both money and heartache in the long run. Speaking of long runs that brings me to the topic of cable length. your cables should only be as long as what is needed without putting strain on your connectors, especially on permanently mounted equipment. Very rarely it has been my experience that a store bought cable was \"just right\" as far as length was concerned. Mic and guitar cables for live use excluded of course, we need to move around on stage. Have a look at the back of most racks and what do you see...a sea of coiled up cables and zip ties or worse what looks like a large box of black spaghetti. That coiled up mess is robbing you of tone and more than likely adding noise you dont want ( not to mention wieght), no matter how good a quality cable you use! You run into all kinds of impedence and capacitence issues having your cables all balled up and those things will effect tone.
If you take the time to make up the cables to the proper lengths needed,your rack will be more organized, easier to repatch if the need arises, and it will be less noisy and give you better sound at the same time. I did it and there was a noticable difference in sound quality plus I'm not tripping over cables anymore in the studio, which is IMO the #1 cause of cable failure.
With that said, you can never have enough cables, and the better quailty connectors and line are worth the money up to a point. I use both neutrik and switchcraft connectors and belden cable, and some of my cables are still going strong after 15 yrs. ! And if you can make a cable then you can repair one as well, so you aren't running out to GC everytime a cable stops working.
Just my take on it... a well wired studio is a good sounding studio.
There's a lot to be said for making your own cables, if you have a good hand for careful soldering and wire prep. Use good connectors - ALWAYS. Choose good cable material.
The extra benefit is that you can make your cables any length you want, which is especially good for unmoving eqpt, or stuff that's hooked up the same way every time.
You can also easily make spare/s to have around.
I've made dozens of cables out of good cable stock and quality connectors, and they've never given my a hint of trouble.
I disagree about molded connectors. CHEAP molded connectors are as bad as any other; however, I have OSP cables, their top of the line, which weren't expensive and have gold-plated molded conn's which are great, at least as tough as a S/C solder-on.
And on the rare occasion where I've had a molded conn'r go bad, I've just hacked it off and put on a S/C...
More critical for unbalanced cables.The main thing I like about building my own cables is that I can open them occasionally and see if they need to be rebuilt. As far as molded cables Shredd, I've been so biased against them for so long that I have'nt bought one for probably ten years. But I'm sure in that time they probably have gotten better. Maybe I'll buy one and give it a hum test and see how it compares to a Belden or Mogami.
Sacrifice it and see how the sheild is wrapped.
pppfft...spittle... :P
nawah...keep doing what you're doing. I think you got it right.
I don't know if the sound is any better on my new cables than my old cables, but like I said, I needed cables that would stand up to being walked on night after night. I personally have never had a cheap cable that \"almost\" worked. Either it did or did not. Maybe I have a bad ear, but for me, an inexpensive cable that works sounds the same as an expensive cable that costs 4X as much. The only reason I upgraded my cables was that I knew we would be walking across the stage and stepping on the cables. As far as sound, I can't say I hear any difference.
As far as making cables the required length, that would not work for me. I just made some 50 foot cable runs for the FOH mains. Sometimes I need all 50 feet, most of the time I don't and the speaker cable is coiled up behind the mixer. We can't afford to buy different length runs for different venues, so I just got what I thought would be our maximum length we would need. I have not noticed any hum from coiling the wires, but I have wondered if that could become a problem.
The same goes for mic and guitar cables, you need the extra length for movement( I think I mentioned that in an earlier post). You sometimes need flexibility. Other times you don't. Thats all i was saying. As well I was referring to the studio more than to a live gig situation, the need for flexibility is much greater in a live situation,IMO.
We play alot of medium sized venues and sometimes I do use all 50' of my cable. Many times, a 25' foot run would be better, but like I said, I was pretty much buying the cable for my maximum runs. I really don't have the $$$ to spend on various lengths, especially since the cable I did buy is some pretty good, and expensive, cable. So the excess gets coiled behind the mixer.
This might be a little off the topic of this thread, but are the wireless transmitters for guitar as good as cable? Or is it you have to spend alot of money to get some decent equipment? In our band, we are all wired into the mixer. It's not like we are rock stars, but I often think it would be nice to go wireless and also have in-ear monitors. I have heard that good wireless equipment is really expensive. If anyone knows of relatively inexpensive wireless equipment that sounds good, I would like to hear about it.
I know what you are saying about the cables...as a fellow musician with limited funds. If I could only have one set for my mains I would go with the longer set...I just happen to have more than one set.
I had some Nady in ears for about two days before sending them back...pure trash. In ear monitoring can get really pricey to do it right...I'd stick with good floor wedges until your first single goes platinum...unless your groupies are screaming too loud and drown them out. In that case.... :roll:
Aw it's cool, title just says cables! probably my fault. I want to thank everyone for their input. I had never thought of manufacturing my own cables! Will definately keep that in mind. Was just curious about cables affecting tone,. Evidently you all haven't experienced this and or didn't notice due to stomp boxes and setting adjustment? Perhaps the aurthor of the article was just grasping at air to earn a pay check?
Any more thoughts/experiences! Keep 'em coming .... Thanks
of which was being discussed. Probably the combination of Trifocals and
and a couple of Martini's.
Well, I may have stretched the topic a bit in my response. But the thread kind of asked about cables, in general, and the thread started talking about making your own. That got me into the conversation about the expense of good stage quality cable from the viewpoint of being walked on. I really don't hear any difference between a low priced cable and a high price cable. It's just that the higher price cable I am currently building have heavy rubber coating and they will hold up much better when they get stepped on.
I will also say that I really don't hear much, if any, difference between my inexpensive guitar cables and my more expensive guitar cables. I have read some of the claims about getting better sound through better ($$$) guitar cable, but in my limited experience of 30 years, I can't honestly say that my $30 guitar cables are any better than my $5 cables. To me, if it works, it works. If it doesn't work, it gets repaired or thrown out. I keep a handful of cheaper guitar cables in my gig bag in case they are needed. Would you believe that I have \"loaned\" people some of my guitar cables and never seen them again? At least if they are the cheap ones, you don't feel too bad about losing them.
Thanks for the response on the wireless systems. We certainly can't afford $400 per person, and I did not want to look at cheap transmitters if they are really not worth the money. We get paid (not too much) to play, so when we do go after new equipment, we really want to make sure we are not just buying junk. Thanks again for the advice.