Medium level musicians
So I read this add by a drummer looking for ' medium level musicians to get together with. ' So it starts me thinking, What constitutes a medium level musician? Is it someone who has completed Mel Bays 3rd instruction book? Someone who can play rhythymn but not lead? What?
How would you all catagorize a medium level musician?
from my pov either you can or you can't. Myself, I can play, but I don't know what I am doing! Make any sense? Being self taught and still in the process. Slowly learning theory. Having never played live with anyone yet. Would I be considered below medium? Is it a general statement that varies from person to person? Or is there a set bench mark?
Jus' wondering what you all think!
How would you all catagorize a medium level musician?
from my pov either you can or you can't. Myself, I can play, but I don't know what I am doing! Make any sense? Being self taught and still in the process. Slowly learning theory. Having never played live with anyone yet. Would I be considered below medium? Is it a general statement that varies from person to person? Or is there a set bench mark?
Jus' wondering what you all think!
Comments
MY opinion is that one, he doesn't own any Van Halen music, two, he has never seen him in concert, three, he can't even figure out the ryhthm on Van Halen's songs.
Anyway, back to question at hand, this drummer might be trying to stress the fact that he is not that experienced ie. playing with musicians, playing in front of an audence etc.
Of course this doesn't mean that he isn't good.
I had a drummer that bought a drumset and we were playing for parties in 6 months, granted we were not the band you wanted to hire for clubs at that point.
I also walked into a music store one day and heard someone playing Ozzy Osbourne on guitar and playing Randy Rhoades note for note. When I walked around to the other side of the Marshall double stack, it was a 10-year old kid playing. It blew my mind.
Sorry this is a long reply, just call to find out what they are looking for. Who knows you could be the next Led Zepplin.
But I suspect Rawb is right...just call these guys up and ask questions, or ask if you can drop in and listen to them play (or jam with them...). Then you'll have a good idea of how they play, and what your level is compared to theirs. \"Level\" is a pretty subjective concept. I mean, to some people, I'M a medium level player. :shock:
Well, if you want to put it that way, to some people I'm a guitar GOD. That doesn't say much, though.
Unless you're Alex Lifeson or Steve Howe or EVH or whoever...then, you're a git'r god no matter who's listening...
Oh come on!....thats only when your handing them milkbones while your playing...
Our current bassist auditioned after answering other ads as serious players only. He showed up knowing all the songs and the band didn't even know the songs they had him audition. He said he stayed about 10 min, tore down and said politely \"when you audition someone the band should know the material.... call me when you know the songs you asked me to learn\" What irritated him was the fact he took a day off of work and drove about 70 mi round trip for something he thought was already to go. The ad also said they had gigs. No clubs, but a couple or birthday parties!!
He knew it was a waste of his time and theirs since he was expecting the group to be prepared. He said they should have used \"guys to jam with\" or just starting\" and not Serious Inq Only.
There's people making millions playing in bands that sell millions of albums, yet the guy can't play his way out of a local battle of the bands. Witness: SLASH. :? So it isn't band/stage experience.
There's guys that know 1000 songs, but can't play any of them right. Like the songbird I play with (mostly 'cuz of her museum-quality torso... :twisted: ). So it isn't material.
There's guys who play great alone, but can't stay with 12-bar blues or Stormy Monday.
I guess what it really takes is the stuff g talks about all the time, and 'taus is learning: communication, cooperation, shared vision and ideas. THEN you can play together and learn and grow, like 'taus's band is.
Drag, that your pal had to go to all that trouble to find he was auditioning for guys with heads more inflated than 'taus's lead git'rist. :roll:
EXACTLY... Why I thought I would throw it out there to hear what others have to say.
My add ..' in a nut shell ' says from beginer to who ever, to just get together and jam! If it leads to anything more... then all the better.
I am willing to share what I know with others less experienced than I. And hopefully others will share in kind with me. Jamming with others can't help but to improve all those involved who can use the experience, imo.
At nearly a 1/2 century old rolling eye's isn't what concerns me. I am afraid of me! A big headed egotistic dopehead who forgets where he came from and starts running his mouth, will tick me off! Then we will have two struttin' game cocks with everyone else laying down bets, and that can get ugly. That is my only stepping stone, once I learn how to play well with others ie in a live situation, I would have no problem answering adds. Some of yous had the advantage of learning your instrument with a friend or family member so in the process you just learned while playing with someone. So playing with others was no big deal. I on the other hand haven't, so to me it is a major stepping stone.
I don't care who you are, no one likes to feel like an a$$ whether it is real or percieved. imo
No, not that most guys prefer kicking a$$ to playing the game. Although that's the sad truth of it. :evil:
What I learned is that there are certain things - ice hockey among them - where the most fun is had by all when there's a relatively even scale of ability among the players. There's always guys who're better and guys who aren't...but if you have a huge gap between the best and worst players, then neither are having any fun playing with the other.
And I think music/jamming/etc would fall into that group of activities. Eh?
Someone that doesn't want to get blowed away by the heavies, but is good enough that he doesn't want to play with beginners..
( I try to play with people that are better than me.. Might get embarassed, but the knowledge gained is worth it..)..
For example, that 10 year old kid will have marvellous technique, but unless he plays with other people he wont improve his musicianship.
I've got way overdeveloped technique, but as fair as reading music goes - I can do it, but its difficult. :?
Hmm tough question... In my humble opinion I think you need to be able to have your own instructional DVD to be classified a top level musician perhaps, because that reflects your standing within the industry. Not that I have one or ever will for that matter! Interestingly when I think about it, for all those years I've tried to become a 'top level musician', the hours of practice, the late nights, the travel..... for most of that time I could barely afford to buy one of those DVD's!!
Some of the best musicians I've met were driving the most banged up car and owned 1 pair of jeans - so obviously they weren't 'top level'!
So now I just sit back, enjoy what I play and not give a damn!
I can do the same thing as far as the video goes - have it mass-produced, sell it on my www.myname.com website, the works - but I just don't have the chops.
I like G's description - above beginners, but not looking for virtuoso theory heads etc. The interpretation of the word \"musician\" is paramount.
I was really surprised with Steve Vai when I saw him at a G3 here and he did a couple of slow, tasteful pieces. Seeing him do that boosted my respect for the guy hugely. Shawn Lane also springs to mind - love his stuff.
On the flipside, maybe being a 'musician' is simply the ability to be able to sit on ya butt all day, every day and play guitar.
I find the following to be excellent, (I either own them or am a member..).
Scotty Anderson, instructional DVD.
Jimmy Bruno Guitar institute..(I'm a member)..
Tuck Andress instructional DVD..
The Following I've heard great things about, and really enjoy their music, but have not personally taken lessons from them. (Too much to do with Bruno)..LOL..
I've heard great stuff about Mark Elf's internet based lessons..
and Robert Conti...
And Joe Diorio
And Tony DeCaprio..
I've heard these guys and love their playing, but have not personally taken lessons, or purchased their DVD's..
Yep there's some really nice stuff on those videos - thanks very much for putting them up, was really refreshing!
That Scotty Anderson reminds me of a lot of the stuff I was listening to when growing up. I'm a huge Brent Mason and Vince Gill fan and been listening to their stuff since the mid 80's. Here's a video you would probably appreciate, its one of my favourites.
Enjoy! 8)
Here is what gets them to the medium level:
1. They are not stuck in a terribly small box. Their riffs are varied, etc.
2. They play well together. Their transitions are very solid.
3. They play some impressive stuff; all of them have some decent \"chops\".
4. Their stuff is interesting to listen to; notwithstanding the criticisms below, I was definitely grooving to it. Good pocket.
5. They play some cool guitar solos (the one guy, anyway). Nothing terribly flashy, but interesting, melodic, soaring - definitely has a professional feel to it.
Here is what keeps them from being a higher level:
1. They've been jamming in D minor for the last two and a half hours. Different riffs, but hardly any \"changes\". I would guess they use drop D tuning - which is limiting in several ways.
2. They do not have much of a battle plan. I did not come up to watch, and it took me a good half an hour to figure out that there is a second guitar and a bass.
3. They have no structure, musically. The jams don't end, they transition. It's an endless stream of music, without clear starting and finishing points.
It is my observation that my last three points pertain with deeper knowledge of theoretical concept of music, rather than the mechanics of the instruments. Also, much of it has to do with composition - perhaps they were just having a good time, and do have songs - but I don't think I've ever heard a singer in there. If anything, they're a metal jam band.
So, I will go ahead and propose that a \"medium level musician\" is one who fights less with his instrument, but continues to have bouts with composition, improvisation, theory, and all the \"details\".
Ya know that guitar solo kinda drowns out the lead singer sometimes foolin ya when you're distracted. Know what I mean? Wait a second, was that Shania I saw over there? Shakin that booty? Whoaaa, sometime the medium level guys become irrelevant when the babes are rockin. Or, wait a minute, maybe they're not meduim level guys at all. Errrrrr...what the hell is medium level musicians after all......LOLLLLL!
I can play a Shania song. In fact, I probably will in the near future - our female vocalist has suggested some. I can play anything. I know how to get the sounds out of a guitar for any style that I hear.
So here are my definitions.
Medium-level Musician - a musician who can stick with most common musical styles, and contribute to songs written or played in that format.
Medium-level Guitarist - (or any instrumentalist) a musician who knows how to pull off most commonly-occurring parts on his instrument, but does not know how to apply that knowledge to some specific, stylistically-different songs.
I think that's enough, based on the discussions we had above.
The guy who can wait out 678 bars of rests on a piece of sheet music, and hit an open C Chord on bar 679, every time..
A lot more nerve wracking than you might think..(Especially with about a 20 piece band and they all come dead silent on bar 679 waiting on your C chord..
So we talking about some sort of equal or unequal balance of ' experience, fret board knowledge + confidence? '
Hate to be redundant, but where does the line get drawn?
Say you have a player that knows his fret board and can play till the cows come home. But whenever get together live with some mates, just screws up constantly <---- still hasn't made it to the meduim level line?
Or a player that plays live with mates alot, but still struggles with improvising and or coming back in when he gets lost! <---- still below medium grade?
Definately a subjective term imo. Perhaps those who use \" medium level \" term in their ads aren't confident in their abilities and are actually looking for those beyond \"medium level \" but afraid to state so? Hoping to catch a player who will sympathize with them. Such as guitar3456 bass man, though he was mislead, had they have used \" medium level etc \" in their add would he or someone else of his abilities answered the ad. And maybe have stuck around till the right gig came along if they were honest?
Medium level to me implies that you have learned to practice, and \"screws up constantly\" means lack of practice. So yes, not medium level. Improvising is a more advanced skill, but some basic improvising - such as running the correct pentatonic scale at least? Maybe skip a note in the scale every now and again, or repeat another one?
Coming back in when lost depends on the other musicians too, so group work is something I would attribute to a medium-level musician. If it's an easy song and you can't come back in, sorry you're not there yet.
As mentioned in an earlier reply, the more experience don't want to bother with the less experience. Yet the less experience wants to jam with the more experience to get better. Seems like a catch 22!
I reckon one could say that a seasoned session player who can move in and out of any genre at will would be able to say that that majority of bar band musicians are medium level cuz they are stuck in one or two genres. Ya I know bad analogy but close. So everything is revelant to ones perception..... The age old question... Can the student ever be better than the master?
Actually.....
I see some speed while improvising??? (I think it's just memorized licks) over a bunch of 5 to 1 chords, playing mainly arps on the 1st 3 strings. Leads me to believe he must have some holes in his fret board, when he starts going all over the neck like that...
(What's wrong with staying in one position and using all 6 strings, even during the 5 to 1 key changes.?? That's real fretboard knowledge in my book, when you can see all 12 keys from any spot in the neck..)
Speed was impressive though..
Iliace, are you sure you didn't find an old cassette of my first band--I thought I burned all of those.
We knew about 8 songs, 4 of them Judas Priest. We had no vocals and no PA to even voice the vocals anyway. But we had fun and people stop by to listen and told us how great we were--they were very nice or tone deaf. Not sure if we were up to medium level or not, it was fun and thats alll that counted. There I had to beat the dead horse too