New Computer...Sofware Advice needed!!!
Okay;
So I've trying to accumulate the makings of a studio. I'm almost completely done (thanks to so many great tips on gear and setup from u guys esp. G3456, I even kinda copied your selfmade desk). Just a few periphery items and I'm done.
Anyway, although I currently use my laptop (with mediocre results). I came upon an awesome deal on a pc, so I just had to buy it. It was under $600. It will be dedicated music ONLY no internet..work files, homework, nothing, just music. here's the specs:
AMD Athlon 64 3500+
1Gb ddr ram
250gb 7200 hhd.
2000mhz FSB.
running XP home sp2.
19\"lcd display
Okay so heres the deal. I would like to upgrade from ptp. I use alot of midi and plug ins, and I've been looking at some different things and I've pretty much nailed it down between Sonar 5 or pro tools LE. Right now I am using the GNX4 (and very occasionally a line 6 toneport) as my sole interface.
I've been researching the threads, and have found some that say using xp64 and a pro soundcard is superior sounding (as I am considering moving to xp64)than using the GNX4 interface, and a guy can route everything thru the mixer instead of the mixer to GNX4 to pc. That being said I also heard that most plug ins dont operate in the 64 bit environment yet either.
So the mbox 2 factory bundle ships w/pro tools LE and a mountian of sweet HQ plug-ins right now for almost the exact same price as sonar 5. The major drawback of the mbox2 that I can see is that it can't do the 96kHz sampling (which most of it's competitors in this pricerange can). I would really like some advice, I really like the software in the mbox2 factory bundle, but am I just being redundant with the interface, or would this be better (ie more flexible/higher sound quality) than using the GNX4 interface. Also I just have whatever soundcard, would that need an upgrade to run optimally w/mbox2? Also is anyone using the GNX4 with pro tools? Or with mbox2? Any and all advice is welcome as the research continues...
Peace,
Dobb.
So I've trying to accumulate the makings of a studio. I'm almost completely done (thanks to so many great tips on gear and setup from u guys esp. G3456, I even kinda copied your selfmade desk). Just a few periphery items and I'm done.
Anyway, although I currently use my laptop (with mediocre results). I came upon an awesome deal on a pc, so I just had to buy it. It was under $600. It will be dedicated music ONLY no internet..work files, homework, nothing, just music. here's the specs:
AMD Athlon 64 3500+
1Gb ddr ram
250gb 7200 hhd.
2000mhz FSB.
running XP home sp2.
19\"lcd display
Okay so heres the deal. I would like to upgrade from ptp. I use alot of midi and plug ins, and I've been looking at some different things and I've pretty much nailed it down between Sonar 5 or pro tools LE. Right now I am using the GNX4 (and very occasionally a line 6 toneport) as my sole interface.
I've been researching the threads, and have found some that say using xp64 and a pro soundcard is superior sounding (as I am considering moving to xp64)than using the GNX4 interface, and a guy can route everything thru the mixer instead of the mixer to GNX4 to pc. That being said I also heard that most plug ins dont operate in the 64 bit environment yet either.
So the mbox 2 factory bundle ships w/pro tools LE and a mountian of sweet HQ plug-ins right now for almost the exact same price as sonar 5. The major drawback of the mbox2 that I can see is that it can't do the 96kHz sampling (which most of it's competitors in this pricerange can). I would really like some advice, I really like the software in the mbox2 factory bundle, but am I just being redundant with the interface, or would this be better (ie more flexible/higher sound quality) than using the GNX4 interface. Also I just have whatever soundcard, would that need an upgrade to run optimally w/mbox2? Also is anyone using the GNX4 with pro tools? Or with mbox2? Any and all advice is welcome as the research continues...
Peace,
Dobb.
Comments
AMD 3800 X2 64
2 gigs ram
EMU 1212m Soundcard (has good 64 bit driver support)
Win XP X64
I'm Running Sonar 5 (I installed the 32 bit version) All plugins are working fine. I use BFD for drums and that wouldn't run in the 64 bit version of sonar.
I used to run my mixer to the line in on the GNX4 and use the usb to the computer. Now everthing is connected to the mixer and straight to the soundcard, levels are now easier to control and I like the overall sound better. It also cut down on latency problems.
If you do decide on XP x64 do your research on drivers. So far printer drivers are the hardest to find. I use the new computer just for music so that wasn't a problem.
When I was looking at sound cards I think the mbox was using beta drivers for x64
It's tough to decide. Our Mac Guys at the big studio use Pro Tools 7 and gobs of other plugins for that. I like the results but I am not as well versed in that area. Being a stand alone guy, I'm learning with the rest of the bunch about Daws. So many opinions are out there. I love the VS2000 for home stuff. PTP or Sonar are also plenty. Once the basic tracks are mixed, the powerful VSTi's or DXI plugins for Sonar, Sound Forge and Wave Lab are incredible.
Stand alone has NEVER given me an issue. Latency, Drivers, none of that applies. Most of the time for Home and Pro recordings the 2000 has plenty of tracks and mix capability. I've used the 2000 on 8 tracks of acoustic drums..panning toms, cymbals..all that. Once those are done I process the wav's in other Programs. This at least gives me the dry track recording and eliminates glitches, pops, etc. To be fair, I've had good results on an upgraded PC. For me, it's the Plugin's that I have debates about as for upgrading to 64 bit. maybe a bit too NEW... I Do like BFD...WOW !
So long as the PC is setup and not running all those back Windows quickstarts and all the toolbar junk, you can get great results with as little as a Gig of Ram. Most recommend at least 2Gig for plugins which Suck the life out of resources.
I use 6.9 but the newest version is 7. Its really easy and comes with a DVD to get you familiar with the software. I record in my garage/studio sometimes at friends home studios so it nice and portable. Hope to get the the 8 track digital mixer (Digi 002 Factory) or the rack version of it soon. that will be my sweet setup for my home studio. I will use my mbox then as a mobile unit only. I like the fact that this systems harware is very upgradable while the software interface (protools) stays the same. It was definaley a step up for me and my recordings had greater detail when mixing at 24-bit/48 kHz audio. The digital mixer takes you up to 24-bit/96 kHz. :twisted: the plugins really rock but you will need all the ram you can get
check it out at http://www.protools.com/
I didn't realize how stripped down pro tools LE was. I think I've decided against mbox2. So what your saying is if I add another gig of ram, and a decent soundcard, I'll be on my way to low latency bliss?
If I went with this type of setup, would I just plug my behringer 1832 in the input and my monitors to the output of the soundcard? Or would that setup require anymore hardware?
Peace,
Dobb.
I just made the switch to Sonar 5 PE and it is awesome. The switch form Protracks was seamless. I highly rcommend it. If you could afford another gig of ram, it will be well worth it!
I have to admit after reading your post, it made me feel like I was some kind of an idiot. Nonetheless, thank you, I appreciate your professional opinion. Pros dont use PC's...point taken. Why, in your opinion do you think this is? With all due respect, The specs on my pc are across the board superior to a macmini, as I have just made the comparison: better chip, 64 bit, faster process, faster bus, more ram (unless I go g4 or better $1500).
So how would I be further ahead by going backwards (technology wise) with my computer and buy a minimac. Are you saying that the software for macs is superior to the same pc versions? Or is compatability (with pro studio gear/or software) a main consideration? What would be the big advantage in your mind of a mini and an mbox,as opposed to say my pc and mbox2 like I was considering? As I know mac fans have a small but fervent user base, so I just want to pick your brain as to why you feel this way, so I can understand for myself
Ne1roc;
Are you still using GNX as your interface, or are you using a soundcard/other interface? Have you had a lot of time to play with all peripheries/plug-ins? Your opinion?
Peace,
Dobb.
Yeah, using the GNX4 as the interface. I like an E-MU 1820 sound card which has a desk top interface in the future but for now, the GNX4 works very well. Plugging thing into the back of a computer is definitely a hassle. I would think a sound card would give you less latency and noise issues. Sometimes I get noise when I have my amp and the GNX4 connected via usb to my laptop. I would go for more ram before getting a soundcard. You already have the GNX4.
I have played with only a few of the effects plug-ins and so far I like what I hear. I have'nt checked out any of the soft synths yet. I experimented with the V-vocoder last night and it was cool. Slightly off key in some vocals (intentionally of course) and fixed it no problem. Sonar has alot of stuff packed into it that should really make an impressive recording. My time with it has been limited.
Sorry, it was never my intention to make you feel like an idiot. I’ve got my blinders on and just assume everyone knows 99% of all recording studios use Macs. I can give you a couple of reasons for using a Mac. One, the Operating System is much more streamlined and has much less going on in the background than Windows XP. That’s why a 1.2ghz Mac can blow the doors of a 2.5ghz PC for doing Photoshop, Video, and of course recording music. Two, they don’t crash as often. If you have a studio at $400/hour, and a room full of 16 strings and 8 horns each getting paid scale the meter starts ticking pretty quickly. Now image you’ve got 23 tracks of playback with plug-in’s on every channel and you’re recording to another 8 channels and you go to punch in on the first take and POOF, your machine gags, spits up and crashes on you. It brings the session to a halt in a hurry and even if the reboot only takes 2 minutes, the silence from the speakers is deafening. I spend about 40 – 50 hours a week running Pro Tools HD on a G5, the last time I crashed during a session was several weeks ago. I can’t say the same for my XP machine at home, which is only running a game. Third, the Core Audio engine sounds incredible and works seamlessly with Logic, Pro Tools, Reason, pretty much anything and already has midi routing in it. Also, if you’re only recording two channels at a time there’s no need for a sound card, it’s part of Core Audio. http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/coreaudio/
Finally, it’s only been in the last 3 or 4 years that any of the standard programs (Pro Tools, Logic, DP, Reason) have become available for Windows. They all started out on the Mac OS. Personally I’ve never run Pro Tools on Windows, but I have to think the code is cleaner in the platform it was originally written for.
Pro Tools vs. Logic. I touched on this a little, but here’s my 2 cents. Pro Tools is a better interface for recording and editing, Logic is better for sequencing and writing. Certainly you can do both on either, but if I were on a budget I’d buy Logic Express. The plug in’s it ships with are totally awesome, and if you ever were to upgrade to Logic ….. now you’ve really got some really cool stuff. Phase linear EQ’s completely invisible mastering compressors, convolution reverb, guitar amp sims, delays, verbs, sampling synths, digital synth, the very BEST B3 module, and Sculpture and Ultrabeat. You should really check it out. http://www.apple.com/logicexpress/ and http://www.apple.com/logicpro/. To even get close to the EQ’s and reverbs in Pro Tools you’d need the Waves Platnum Bundle, the Renaissance EQ’s plus the TC Reverb. That’s about $3500!
As far as recording with my GNX3K. I’ve only had it for a week. It will be strictly a live box for me. That’s what I consider any multiFX box. Over the years I’ve recorded the best of the best studio guitar players and I can’t recall a time when someone came in with a multiFX box. Studio players either bring in rack mount very high end stuff, or a bunch of Boss stomp boxes, oh and tons of the actual amps these boxes simulate! Lately we’ve done some guitars direct and done all the effects with plugin’s, but I much prefer the guitar player gets his sound so we can’t tweak it later.
Sorry I rambled on so long. Hope this helps.
InTheStudio
Dobb, call Sweetwater or email them. They are very good and well versed in PRO and HR finds. Windows platforms are being widely used by many places since SW formats are more available for them. This is what our eng told me me today... the caution here is the 64 bit stuff is relatively new and there are as many driver issues with plugins, etc..not that those soon won't be corrected.
$99 sound cards most likely won't do much. You need to look into some higher profile cards that have less issues. Go to tweakheadz.com and ask around there. Emu 1820, and others. Most I have talked to suggest PCI Cards like the EMU's, Maudio Delta Series or Firewire (Presonus). You'll have to check that those are 64 bit compatible..
At 96kHz i can run my buffers down to 64, 0 latency, and dont have any issues untill i i start recording my 8th or 10th track. Even at that i might find one or two minor clicks in an entire track. So to be on the safe side, when mixing i turn the buffers up to 256, = 2.7 ms. of latency. And havent had any issues yet. (Being able to monitor with plugins is a awesome too, espcially for vox).
Granted I have tuned XP up a little, the PC isnt online, and no virus scans are running. And I do think the sound card i installed as soon as i got it had a big influence on its DAW performance with its internal clocks for sync, etc.
As for the Mac/PC, ProToos/Sonar thing. I believe in the very near future PC's will be the top dog for audio b/c some of the recent advances are surpassing macs and theres a big market for it.
Ive demo'd a few different software suites, and IMHO audition, and sonar are the best choices out there as far as functionality and user friendliness goes. Sonar 5 would be the better choice because once 32bit becomes obsolete your software will not be.
Thanks for all of the input. I've been researching the hell out of this for the last few days. I'm still shopping and deciding for a soundcard/firewire interface, all you other gear wh%*&s know exactly how that goes :oops: . I've found a few of each that I like...now its off to harmony central. I'm taking G3456's advice and emailing sweetwater to see what they would recommend for me. I'm also now well informed in shutting down all of the background windows crap that causes alot of the trouble inthe first place. Thanks to whomever (I think Jer) posted the link to MusicXP.net and the other optimise your pc stuff...Lotsa really good stuff there.
I've decided to get a solid interface, then lay down the bucks for sonar 5. I'm gonna leave the computer be, and see how it functions with sonar as is, and i'll go from there. I'll post some pics of the homemade desk after I mount all of the rackgear (rails are in the mail). If anyone has a firewire interface, I'd love to hear your opinions.
Peace,
Dobb.