Speaker choice for foldback

Fanman20 · December 2007

Greatings again

I am mixing a small band in a church and want to keep the \"volume\" on stage down.
The closer I move the foldback wedges to the singers and muso's the more I can turn down the wedges, therefore the less \"volume\" on stage.

My question is has any body seen or used small speakers on mic stands?

(This will get speakers a lot closer, and less \"volume\" will be needed)
(May not look good but better quality sound out front is my primary aim)

What brand's work well?
What are the pluses and minuses for this setup ?
Bass response is not that important but vocals responce is.

Love to hear your thoughts

Mark

kpippen · December 2007

Hi Mark,

I suppose IEM's are out of the question?...

http://www.westone.com/content/8.html

Kev

Fanman20 · December 2007

unfortunately too expensive

kpippen · December 2007

Mark,

Maybe something like this will work with some good earphones...

http://www.rolls.com/products/pm50.php

http://www.rolls.com/products/pm50sob.php

Cheers!

Kev

Fanman20 · December 2007

I have used â€œwired in earâ€?

Behringer headphone amp AMP800

http://messe.harmony-central.com/Musikm ... MP800.html

Hard wired into a belt pack, then into an â€œin earâ€? monitors

Worked well, but would like to use speakers

Fanman20 · December 2007

You are too quick for me.

Your suggestion is similar to the Behringer headphone amp AMP800

I does work well untill the muso's need to move around. does tie them down.

Don't work well for the lead singer

kpippen · December 2007

Mark,

Do a google search for key phrase: Bose Jewel Cube

Also search your local Aussie eBay... These could be mounted right on your mic stands using the bose UB-20 wall brackets... Bose also offers UFS-20 floor stands for these...

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_STATIC_PAGE_EVENT&url=/home_entertainment/theater/systems/premium_dvd/ls38/accessories.jsp#tabs

You would need to get cables for them because they have a special 2-pin connector... You would need to watch your impedance... You have a Bose outlet store close by?...

Kevin

Fanman20 · December 2007

Bose in Aust are very expensive compaired to the USA (I do own a pair of 802's and 502 subs)

Heres a thought

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/i ... itor.l.jpg

kpippen · December 2007

Here's five for $79.00USD...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =WDVW&rd=1

Kev

kpippen · December 2007

Fanman20 wrote:

Heres a thought

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/i ... itor.l.jpg

I have seen something very similar!... The drumer in one of our praise teams used it... I think it was called "hot box" or something like that... I'll try a search...

Kev

Fanman20 · December 2007

1 for $79

PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE 5 SPEAKERS IN THE PICTURE AVAILABLE FOR SALE INDIVIDUALLY BUT YOU WILL ONLY BE GETTING ONE (1) SPEAKER FOR THE BUY IT NOW PRICE OF $79.99 NOT ALL 5 OF THEM ALTHOUGH

ebay gets me every time

kpippen · December 2007

Sorry,...my bad!...

Now if you could only buy the sattelites:

http://www.yamaha.com/drums/drumproductdetail.html?CNTID=544652&CNTYP=PRODUCT

Kev

kpippen · December 2007

GOT IT!!!!

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--GXYMSVC

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--GXYMICROSPOTPW

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--GXYHOTSPOTVC

Kev

Fanman20 · December 2007

Well done
That's what I thinking will work.

I will do a little more research on http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--GXYHOTSPOTVC
Tomorrow
(Next year)

kpippen · December 2007

I guess the key words would be \"personal monitor\"...

Have a great day!

Kev

Dra · December 2007

Peavey also makes an Impulse 4.5\"(x2) + Tweet with level control, but not on the front.
Others make them as well, stay away from horns if you can (feedback).

DRA

Gadget · December 2007

Ish.. they all suck in my opinion unless you are at a seriously low volume over all, and with a loud FOH.. LESS than useless...Never met a guitar player that could operate at a low volume, and I, as a guitar player, understand that with an amp the tone is hard to get at a low volume. Last night I had a bass player that was KILLING me out front, A lady came to complain and I went up and told the player that even with the channel OFF, and muted the bass level changed very little(I demonstrated this to the lady) He looked at me like I was crazy...Later he came to me somewhat sheepishly and said I found out what the problem was... The EQ AND volume control were ALL THE WAY UP.. and the speaker was now destined for the scrap heap...He said
\"I don't understand... the speaker is rated at 300 watts and the amp only has 180 watts?\" Note...you can blow up a 400 watt speaker with a 20 watt amp far easier than you could with a 2000 watt amp.. it's all in how an amp clips, and produces deadly DC current that fries speakers. The amp was on the floor, a 10 \" Behringer \"combo amp\" with a 300 watt Eminence speaker. firing at his ankles.

This goes to show that you need to get your players to get their amps in a position that they can hear them at a lower volume.
Gadget

Fanman20 · December 2007

unless you are at a seriously low volume over all

It is in a church and the volume is low. Thatâ€™s why I would like to find a solution to the large volume of sound coming off stage, without using IEM.

At times there is no FOH sound detectable; it is all \"Foldback muffled noise.\"
I may as well not be mixing FOH.

Getting the foldback speakers closer to muso's and turning down there amp sounds like a smart idea.
Does any one have similar problems??

I would like to find a solution.

Mark

Gadget · December 2007

Personally I think the \"all direct input/no amps on stage would be the only way to go in church. I had band with ALL Line 6 gear, guitar and bass rigs and the drummer played Roland \"V\" drums and everything went through the monitors and it was so quite it was beautiful.. except in a live full out band setting I HATED the Line 6 sound, but for church...

Gadget

Dra · December 2007

2 hotspots and a roll of duct tape. (mega-earphones)

Seriously, I've seen guitar players place their amps in front of them and angle like a monitor. That helps.

Also seen them bring in 2 full \"M\" stacks in a 30 x 20 room and complain that they can't here the vocal in the monitors. wah?

DRA

kpippen · December 2007

At our church we run everything through active DI boxes (one Tech21 Sans Amp, one Countryman DI, one L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic, two Radial J48s and POD XTs),...absolutely no amps on stage... We do have acoustic drums but with a drum shield and we have six monitors on stage... As for the foldback mix if I'm running sound I insist that the wedges are only as loud as they absolutely have to be... We always practice about 1-hour before the service and get the mix right... Right when the service starts I turn each monitor mix down by 3dB... The musicians never know the difference and the FOH is always on top...

Kev

Fanman20 · January 2008

Check out this thought

Speaker on a mic stand!! :roll:
http://www.electrovoice.com/products/136.html

75 watts rms

anyone seen / used these speakers??

Mark

kpippen · January 2008

Fanman20 wrote:

Check out this thought

Speaker on a mic stand!! :roll:
http://www.electrovoice.com/products/136.html

75 watts rms

anyone seen / used these speakers??

Mark

Mark,...It appears that it's rated for 150 watts music program and 300 watts peak... Looks pretty good to me... You may want to search the PSW forums to see if anyone there has comments... Here's some more info that I found:

http://192.112.63.14/Electrovoice3/files.nsf/Pages/EVID32-eds/$file/38109981.pdf

http://192.112.63.14/Electrovoice3/files.nsf/Pages/SOS32INSTr/$file/EV_EVID_SOS_3.2_%26_MA-3_Series_Assembly_Instructions.pdf

I noticed they cost anywhere from $119.00 to $150.00USD on the web,...but this one just sold on eBay for $55.00...:shock:

http://cgi.ebay.com/EVID-SOS-3-2-MONITOR-SPEAKER_W0QQitemZ260197870133QQihZ016QQcategoryZ47093QQcmdZViewItem

If you decide to get one please post back and let me know what you think about it...:P

Kev

Gadget · January 2008

I don't know about YOU guys, but I go to GREAT lengths to keep vibrations and stage sounds from the monitors away from the mic stands... Now were hanging the boom arm and mic off a SPEAKER? sounds like a recipe for muddy vocals and or vibration induced wow and flutter in the low end...

I wonder why in this world of innovation and application dependent mania that NO other speaker manufacturer any where else in the world has come out with something similar... Drink holders...yes, built in music stand.. yes, built in headphone holder.. yes, guitar pick minders..yes..speakers that vibrate like crazy? I don't think so...

Geez :roll: I'm such wet blanket...

Gadget

Fanman20 · January 2008

Thanks for the links Kev

Now Gadget, It appears that you are not living up yo your name, \"Gadget\".
Kev has found a great \"Gadget\".

Would it make you feel better it I said that I was only intending using a mic stand and speaker, and not a boom arm on top.!

â€œGeez I'm such wet blanket...â€?

But your thoughts are welcome.

Mark

Gadget · January 2008

I keep up with the technology pretty well, that doesn't mean that everything that comes down the pike is a good idea that will prove out to be unique, and useful. Yes speakers on a stand will work, I just don't like them I guess.
Gadget

kpippen · January 2008

Mark,

Found this review: http://www.zzounds.com/productreview--ELVSOS32

Kev

Gadget · January 2008

:shock: Imagine that...

I won't say \"I told you so\" :roll: Looks like another NOT SO great idea :idea:
Gadget

Fanman20 · January 2008

Steady on Gadget

Overall concept
Reduce sound coming off stage though foldback speakers, therefore able to turn up FOH mix. Better mix for congregation / audience. Better speech intelligibility.

Method
Move foldback speakers closer to ears so less level required out of foldback speakers (taken to the extreme = IEM)

Overall concept and method is not flawed.

Only the execution that needs exploring / refining and tuning
The review was only one personâ€™s opinion that may not have been executed well or used in the wrong situation.

Perhaps the speakers are too small, slightly bigger might be better.

I will experiment with some JBL control 28's out of my garage sound system. http://www.jblpro.com/pub/install/contr ... Ctrl28.pdf

I will put them on a 3 foot high stand near the keyboard player and see how they go.

I might put my DRPA across them \"Pink them\" and transfer the results to 1/3 octave graphic

Still working on the execution of the concept
Thoughts working towards a good result are still appreciated
Mark

kpippen · January 2008

Mark,

TOA is usually pretty good stuff...

http://www.shenzhen.cc/toa/ps-speakers/sm-68.htm

http://www.toaelectronics.com/disc/spec_sheets/sm-68.pdf

http://www.toaelectronics.com/disc/manuals/SM-68.pdf

Kev

Fanman20 · January 2008

Thanks Kev

Looks as if might do the job
Like the idea that it is flat
It would sit just above a keyboard well

Mark

Speaker choice for foldback

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