Autopatch HDMI Matrix Switcher

pauld
pauld Junior Member
in AutoPatch Forum
We received our first Autopatch 8x8 HDMI Switcher today, and we were expecting the switcher to pass all audio/video that HDMI can carry.

However we discovered that the HDMI switcher does NOT pass HD Surround formats (For Example: Dolby TrueHD, DTS Master Audio). Nor Can it pass the 7.1 LPCM, or 5.1 LPCM formats. It only passes Standard Dolby Digital, and standard DTS.

Why?

There are a few other HDMI switchers on the market that all support these audio formats. I don't want to pull out a $300k AMX system and replace it with "the company that must not be named", but we might have to. Their HDMI switcher supports these formats.

Nearly EVERY bluray player on the market will output these audio formats. If you are installing a Home Theater with 7.1 or 5.1 Speaker layout you will want the nicer audio.

We can't use this, because our project has 4 home theaters and our client demands high resolution audio.

Disappointing.
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Comments

  • philg5140
    philg5140 Junior Member
    Also disappointed

    I just confirmed this a few days ago myself. HDMI was hard enough to implement. AMX has managed to make it impossible now. I myself am waiting to see if we see Blu-Ray and set top boxes with two HDMI outs, use one for video and one for audio. I haven't thought it all the way through but if true and it works could solve some problems.
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  • John Nagy
    John Nagy CineTouch Product Manager
    Impossible with AMX now? Seems unlikely that you must choose the Ctron just because the AMX matrix won't do. Won't the GEFFEN or DIGITAL EXTENDER or other switchers work? They say they do audio too... but there are many formats to verify...

    Also note that the CTRON switch is double the AMX price, the SVNT switch is 4x the AMX price... but there are many choices that work with AMX.

    Interesting comparisons:
    https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AuEobFUk9H9UdHdVVlZLaDcwT0I0UEsycFdRYWJiX1E&hl=en#gid=0
    discussion here
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1228283
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  • DHawthorne
    DHawthorne Junior Member
    This isn't really an AMX-only problem. Lots of HDMI devices won't pass every possible signal type, and even more are not reliable with the HDCP handshake. It can sometimes be a challenge finding a switch that fits your exact devices. For that reason, we will often use component (YPrPb) instead when doing a lot of switching. In most cases, you can't see a visual difference anyway.
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  • HARMAN_Brooks
    HARMAN_Brooks Creative Services Manager, Harman Professional
    I'm with Dhawthorne, HDMI can really be a pain when your in even a lightly complex switching enviroinment. I have tried *so* hard to see the difference between a 1080i component video signal and 1080p HDMI signal. Sometimes my brain tells me there is a difference, but as soon as I take my nose away from the screen, I really can't see any difference. Component video switches faster, more reliably, and cheaper than HDMI. Ironically, I've had the most luck with AV receivers that have built in HDMI switches. Obviously there's no matrix routing there (just one output usually), but for simple systems that's always been my preference just because they seem to work with many different devices.

    Sorry for the tangent, I just feel that in 2010 we should have figured this out by now :)
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  • pauld
    pauld Junior Member
    DHawthorne wrote: »
    This isn't really an AMX-only problem. Lots of HDMI devices won't pass every possible signal type, and even more are not reliable with the HDCP handshake. It can sometimes be a challenge finding a switch that fits your exact devices. For that reason, we will often use component (YPrPb) instead when doing a lot of switching. In most cases, you can't see a visual difference anyway.

    HDMI is problematic, but the audio that you can get from it is worth the trouble(in my opinion). HDMI video is mostly dependent on the source material. In order to see a difference you need to have good source material.

    We do use component switching most of the time, and try to stay away from HDMI switching when possible. However this client has need of both HDMI and component switchers. So we had hoped to use autopatch for both switchers, but are currently investigating other options.
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  • pauld
    pauld Junior Member
    An Update...

    During the installation my Co-workers noted that the AMX UTPro (an option on the HDMI 8x8 matrix switcher) has a better picture than the other cat 5 HDMI baluns that we were using. The AMX UTPro also seems to handle the distance much better, including 1080p60 at 200+ feet, which is something we were having a problem with on other baluns.

    I may be upset with the "audio issues", but this unit is performing very well in the other respects.
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  • Colzie
    Colzie Senior Member
    Did anyone have to mess with the audio output on the source devices? I'm setting up a UTPro right now and we are having issues with the HDMI audio. If we connect the UTPro HDMI output directly to a TV we get the audio, but if we connect it directly to our receiver we don't hear anything...even though the receiver shows on the display it is getting a signal.

    AMX tech support says "check your sources".
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  • pauld
    pauld Junior Member
    We did not make any changes to the source settings. We just put the HDMI switcher in and powered it up according to the instructions. The only audio issue that we encountered was with a Lumagen video processor, but that was not the same issue that you describe.
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  • Rock Tech
    Rock Tech Junior Member
    HDCP
    Colzie wrote: »
    Did anyone have to mess with the audio output on the source devices? I'm setting up a UTPro right now and we are having issues with the HDMI audio. If we connect the UTPro HDMI output directly to a TV we get the audio, but if we connect it directly to our receiver we don't hear anything...even though the receiver shows on the display it is getting a signal.

    AMX tech support says "check your sources".

    I am working with Chad on this. AMX said tonight that it could be the cache in the UTP Pro. They said that it may have to do with the HDCP. I am not sure if that sounds right. I was wondering if anyone had to mess with any settings in the Surround Sound Receiver. Not only does the Receiver show that there is audio but it also shows "PCM". Can you make a receiver not receive "PCM"? The sources are HD Cable box, Apple TV and Sony 400Disc Changer. All appear to be set to Dolby Digital.
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  • DavidR
    DavidR Junior Member
    add me to the stressed list

    Installed one of these today and here is my findings re audio issues:

    Samsung bluray - audio level very low and has to be set to pcm
    Directv HR21 - seems to be working fine
    Motorola DCT6214 III - display says 'unsupported audio format' and picture flashes on/off
    Kaleidescape Kplayer 5000 - full digital distortion
    AppleTV - works with Dolby Digital set to off
    Mac Mini - high pitch whistle

    picture works fine all all sources so it seems the audio is causing major compatibility issues. I wish there was a way to just turn the hdmi audio off to some outputs as I have analog feeds. better yet it just needs to work!
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  • VladaPUB
    VladaPUB as it is !
    Simmilar problem with UTPro. Any idea ?
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  • TurnipTruck
    TurnipTruck Junior Member
    Anyone tried new firmware yet?

    I'm going to have to work with one of these.

    Thanks.
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  • elytronic
    elytronic Junior Member
    Any updates?
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  • TurnipTruck
    TurnipTruck Junior Member
    Still waiting for for mine to ship.
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  • Colzie
    Colzie Senior Member
    We had to swap out our Marantz receivers with their newest model (5005). The older ones (5003 & 5004 I think) wouldn't work properly with the HDMI switcher.
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  • DavidR
    DavidR Junior Member
    I received a three page letter from autopatch on modifying EDID keys etc etc... Pretty much decided to return it.

    New firmware release doesnt appear to cover any of my issues with the product.
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  • TurnipTruck
    TurnipTruck Junior Member
    DavidR wrote: »
    I received a three page letter from autopatch on modifying EDID keys etc etc... Pretty much decided to return it.

    New firmware release doesnt appear to cover any of my issues with the product.

    Now I'm scared!!
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  • elytronic
    elytronic Junior Member
    Updates?

    This is a very nice product at an almost reasonable price. AMX should find a way to make it work.
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  • VladaPUB
    VladaPUB as it is !
    It works ok on one instalation where I have use it. EDID is not really a big problem, just RTFM.
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  • TurnipTruck
    TurnipTruck Junior Member
    I have the switcher in my office now. Currently programming other parts of the system. Will be testing/installing in the next month or so.
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